Who is classed as a "Non-Believer"?

by freedomfighter 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • freedomfighter
    freedomfighter

    This issue came up back in 1994 when i met my wife to be. I was baptised and she had been brought up as a witness and had baptised witness parents. Problem was she was unbaptised. An elder warned me against taking the relationship further until she was baptised.

    I asked why and He quoted 2 Cor 6:14 " Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers......" I said to him " Are you calling her an unbeliever?" He said " Until she is baptised - yes" I said " She has been brought up as a witness and attends meetings - how can she be an unbeliever?" Well we went round and round in circles and it got quite heated.

    Question: If this line of reasoning is correct, then what about the Elder with his family who sits up the front - Are his children unbelievers? How do you think he would react if you called his children such?

    Apparently "New Light" has come from the Watchtower on this since. Does anyone have that info? I would appreciate seeing it.

    Regards

    FF

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    There's a slight chance the elder was telling you not to marry anyone the elders can't control. An unbaptized person is immune to virtually all the social sanctions, the trials, the shunning, and the weasel tricks like withholding "privileges" that the elders use to manipulate people. The counsel was really more of a punishment for HER for not getting baptized than counsel for you.

    Every time you're looking at an elder you're seeing a miracle . . . you're seeing a weasel talking.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    It is loose terminology that will be used by the group simply meet its needs. No hard and fast rules apply.

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w04 7/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***

    At 2 Corinthians 6:14, to whom is Paul referring when he uses the term "unbelievers"?At 2 Corinthians 6:14, we read: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers." If we look at the context, it is evident that Paul is speaking of individuals who are clearly no part of the Christian congregation. This understanding is supported by other Bible verses that record Paul’s use of the term "unbeliever" or "unbelievers."

    For example, Paul reprimands Christians for going to court "before unbelievers." (1 Corinthians 6:6) Here, the unbelievers are judges serving in the court system of Corinth. In his second letter, Paul states that Satan "has blinded the minds of the unbelievers." The eyes of such unbelievers are ‘veiled’ from the good news. These unbelievers have made no move toward serving Jehovah, since Paul earlier explained: "When there is a turning to Jehovah, the veil is taken away."—2 Corinthians 3:16; 4:4.

    Some unbelievers are involved in lawlessness or idolatry. (2 Corinthians 6:15, 16) However, not all are opposed to Jehovah’s servants. Some show an interest in the truth. Many have Christian mates and are happy to stay with them. (1 Corinthians 7:12-14; 10:27; 14:22-25; 1 Peter 3:1, 2) However, Paul consistently applies the term "unbeliever" to individuals who, as mentioned above, are no part of the Christian congregation, which is made up of "believers in the Lord."—Acts 2:41; 5:14; 8:12, 13.

    The principle found at 2 Corinthians 6:14 is a valuable guide for Christians in all areas of life and has often been quoted as providing wise counsel for Christians seeking a marriage mate. (Matthew 19:4-6) A dedicated, baptized Christian wisely does not seek a marriage mate among those who are unbelievers, since the values, goals, and beliefs of unbelievers are so different from those of a true Christian.

    What, though, of individuals who study the Bible and associate with the Christian congregation? What of those who are unbaptized publishers? Are they unbelievers? No. Individuals who have accepted the truth of the good news and are progressing steadily toward baptism should not be called unbelievers. (Romans 10:10; 2 Corinthians 4:13) Before his baptism Cornelius was called "a devout man and one fearing God."—Acts 10:2.

    Would it be wise, then, for a dedicated Christian to pursue courtship and marriage with someone who has been accepted as an unbaptized publisher, since, strictly speaking, Paul’s counsel recorded at 2 Corinthians 6:14 could not apply in that case? No, that is not wise. Why not? Because of the direct counsel Paul gave regarding Christian widows. Paul wrote: "She is free to be married to whom she wants, onlyintheLord." (1 Corinthians 7:39) In harmony with that counsel, dedicated Christians are urged to seek marriage mates only among those who are "in the Lord."

    What is the meaning of the expression "in the Lord" and the related expression "in Christ"? Paul speaks of individuals who were "in Christ" or "in the Lord" at Romans 16:8-10 and Colossians 4:7. If you read those verses, you will see that such ones are ‘fellow workers,’ ‘approved ones,’ ‘beloved brothers,’ ‘faithful ministers,’ and ‘fellow slaves.’

    When does one become a "slave in the Lord"? That happens when he willingly does what a slave has to do and disowns himself. Jesus explains: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and continually follow me." (Matthew 16:24) A person begins to follow Christ and fully subject himself to the will of God when he dedicates himself to God. Thereafter, he offers himself for baptism and becomes an ordained minister with an approved standing before Jehovah God. So, then, to ‘marry in the Lord’ means to marry someone who has demonstrated that he is truly a believer, a dedicated "slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ."—James 1:1.

    A person who is studying the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses and who is making fine spiritual progress is to be commended. However, he has not yet dedicated himself to Jehovah and committed himself to a life of service and sacrifice. He is still making necessary changes. He needs to complete the major changes involved in becoming a dedicated, baptized Christian before contemplating another major life change, such as marriage.

    Would it be advisable for a Christian to pursue courtship with someone who seems to be making good progress in his Bible study—perhaps with the intention of waiting until he gets baptized before marrying him? No. The motives of a Bible student could well become confused if he is aware that a dedicated Christian wants to marry him but will not do so until he is baptized.

    For the most part, an individual is an unbaptized publisher only for a limited period of time, until he progresses to the point of baptism. So the above counsel to marry only in the Lord is not unreasonable. What, though, if someone is of marriageable age, has been brought up in a Christian family, has been active in the congregation for a number of years, and serves as an unbaptized publisher? Well, what has held him back from giving his life to Jehovah in dedication? Why does he hesitate? Does he have doubts? While he is not an unbeliever, he cannot be spoken of as being "in the Lord."

    Paul’s counsel on marriage is for our benefit. (Isaiah 48:17) When both prospective mates have dedicated themselves to Jehovah, their commitment to each other in marriage has a solid, spiritual foundation. They share the same values and the same goals. This greatly contributes to a happy union. Moreover, by ‘marrying in the Lord,’ one shows loyalty to Jehovah, and that leads to enduring blessings, for "with someone loyal [Jehovah] will act in loyalty."—Psalm 18:25.

    [Footnote]

    For the anointed Christians to whom Paul was writing in the first instance, being a "slave in the Lord" also involved receiving their anointing as sons of God and brothers of Christ.

    [Picture

    onpage 31]

    "With someone loyal [Jehovah] will act in loyalty"

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    There is no doubt that this is another trick they are using to bust up a potential marriage. They have someone else in mind for this "sister". So, what they will do is use this specious reason not to allow it to go forward. When she gets baptized, you will then be hounded to wait to see how it will turn out with her in the "truth". Then, the "brother" who they are setting her up for will be given the chance to take it out from under your feet.

    This could well be because they want you to stay single for life. That would allow them to use you in assignments that are too dangerous or difficult for a couple, or in certain missionary work (there is no scriptural reason why a single person has to take those assignments). Then, they could also be applying that scripture about a person being better at carrying the name than kids as meaning you could do more than yourself plus kids, a totally impossible feat. All that will do is set you up to be destitute when you get old, and they will throw you away like a hot potato when you get too old to continue doing much in the field circus. My strong advice is that you never, EVER accept any assignment that requires being single; otherwise you will be rewarding them for pulling this crap.

    The non-Witless definition of a non-believer is someone that doesn't fully believe in something. People that have been around it all their lives but are not yet mature enough to make a full dedication are not unbelievers. A real unbeliever in the Watchtower doctrine is either one that has never been exposed to it, has actively rejected the message, or has seen through the lies and is now an apostate. People that are sitting on the sidelines are not truly unbelievers since they are still open-minded about it. Rather, they are looking for more proof to solidify their beliefs. Were they actually non-believers, they would take the side that it is a lie and look for proof before joining or even going to meetings.

    I hope you both find those apostate Web sites that the Watchtower Society has warned you against and read them. After that, there is a good chance that you both will become non-believers.

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w97 11/1 pp. 10-11 pars. 8-9 Christians and the World of Mankind ***

    8

    Apart from circumcised proselytes, other non-Jews were attracted to the Jewish religion. The first of these to become a Christian was Cornelius who, although not a proselyte, was "a devout man and one fearing God." (Acts 10:2) In his commentary on Acts, Professor F. F. Bruce wrote: "Such Gentiles are commonly called ‘God-fearers’; while this is not a technical term, it is a convenient one to use. Many Gentiles of those days, while not prepared to become full converts to Judaism (the requirement of circumcision being a special stumbling block for men), were attracted by the simple monotheism of Jewish synagogue worship and by the ethical standards of the Jewish way of life. Some of them attended synagogue and became tolerably conversant with the prayers and scripture lessons, which they heard read in the Greek version."

    9

    The apostle Paul met up with many God-fearers when preaching in synagogues in Asia Minor and Greece. In Pisidian Antioch he addressed those assembled in the synagogue as "men, Israelites and you others that fear God." (Acts 13:16, 26) Luke writes that after Paul preached for three Sabbaths in the synagogue in Thessalonica, "some of them [the Jews] became believers [Christians] and associated themselves with Paul and Silas, and a great multitude of the Greeks who worshiped God and not a few of the principal women did so." (Acts 17:4) Likely, some of the Greeks were uncircumcised God-fearers. There is evidence that many such Gentiles associated themselves with Jewish communities.
  • freedomfighter
    freedomfighter

    Thanks for your comments guys. Thanku Blondie for that comprehensive information.

    This is another example of twisting and interpreting the scriptures in a ridiculous attempt to justify their Man-made laws.

    FF

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    How do you think I feel when my JW husband calls me an "unbeliever"?

    Me, over twenty-seven years a dedicated Christian and Sunday School teacher. An "unbeliever". And it's my husband who hesitates to come before God's throne in prayer.

  • tribalgirl
    tribalgirl

    I am non-believer.

    The WTS has proven itself to be untrustworthy and so, wisely, I am a non-believer.

  • Frequent_Fader_Miles
    Frequent_Fader_Miles
    the direct counsel Paul gave regarding Christian widows. Paul wrote: "She is free to be married to whom she wants, only in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 7:39)

    This topic personally irks me all the time. Anyone reading Corinthians chapter 7 in its entirety will realize how specific Paul was in giving his advice. He specified between his advice and directives from the Lord. "Marry in the Lord" was only referring to widows, when it came to virgins Paul stated that he had no directive from the Lord.

    Of course the Watchtower creates their own meaning, once again totally out of context.

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