Bin Laden Innocent?

by dubla 44 Replies latest jw friends

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  dubla

  there have been several threads recently where individuals have spoken out against the united states for their actions against afghanistan. there are some people on this forum who continue to express the belief that bin laden has not had a fair trial up to this point, and these same people have insinuated that perhaps the u.s. doesnt have enough proof against him and his network to take forceful military action. for any still unclear on this, please click here >>> http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/10/10/gen.alqaeda.video/index.html

  aa
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  Seeker

  I know bin Laden is guilty of many terrorist actions, and probably the WTC one as well. I also know that the evidence brought forth against him so far in this case has been inconclusive and vague, and that we will never be told all that the government knows. I also know that governments routinely lie to their citizens, and that the media passes on propaganda designed to let the citizens know what they are supposed to think. First we are told that Saddam Hussein is our friend, then we are told he is our enemy. First we are told Noriega is our friend, then we are told he is our enemy. And so on.

  In other words, those of us not in the know will never know the whole truth. Probably we are being told the basic truth in this case, but almost certainly they are not telling us the whole truth, and likely we are being lied to (at least in some areas), just like in every other war.
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  dubla

  seeker-

  I also know that the evidence brought forth against him so far in this case has been inconclusive and vague

  you do? you must be privy to information about the evidence in this case that the rest of us are not, considering they havent released any of that evidence to the public yet.

  . First we are told that Saddam Hussein is our friend, then we are told he is our enemy. First we are told Noriega is our friend, then we are told he is our enemy. And so on.

  In other words, those of us not in the know will never know the whole truth.

  very true. in fact, bin laden was once an ally of the u.s., and i heard somewhere (i havent confirmed this), that we actually trained him. i would agree though, that most of us will never know the whole truth, and that goes way beyond foreign affairs and war.

  the point i was making with that link though, is that al qaeda (led by bin laden), is not only all but assuming responsibility for the sep 11th attacks now, but actually threatening more attacks. even if the evidence was vague, it is getting clearer with every statement by al qaeda.

  aa
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  drahcir yarrum

  I don't know why, but everytime I see a picture of Osama bin Laden or one of his people, the term "Sand Monkeys" comes to mind.
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  bboyneko

  Ossama was trained by our CIA to overthrow the societ invaders during the late 70's early 80's..at that time russia was our enemy and ossama our friend...well when ossama overthrew the communist invaders he was the enemy and then russia is our friend. Same exact thing happened with cuba

  we need to stop training native people to overthrow their leaders and friggin assasinat them ourselves
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  Seeker

  you do? you must be privy to information about the evidence in this case that the rest of us are not, considering they havent released any of that evidence to the public yet.

  Yes they have. The BBC published a list of points that were presented to Tony Blair by the US. It wasn't everything, but it was quite a few points. But it was a lot of inference and assumption, so the real hard evidence was held back. Sorry, I can't find the story link now, but I read it late last week.

  And yes, bin Laden was trained by the CIA during the Russia-Afghanistan war. bin Laden is Saudi, and he came to help the mujahadeen fighters in their struggle with Russia. Since that benefited the US during the cold war, the US helped these Afghan fighters and trained some, including bin Laden. When the Russians pulled out, so did the US -- big mistake. Instead of helping rebuild the country, a power void was left amidst anarchy. The Taliban came in from Pakistan, and the rest is history.

  Tony Blair gave a speech yesterday saying that they had made mistakes with regard to Afghanistan in the past, but this time they would stick around to help rebuild the country. At least they are learning from their past mistakes.
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  dubla

  Yes they have. The BBC published a list of points that were presented to Tony Blair by the US. It wasn't everything, but it was quite a few points.

  i read the same list, in fact i presented the link on this forum. the fact is they have released ZERO evidence (only "points" as you put it), so no one knows how "inconclusive" or "vague" the actual evidence really is. id guess the actual evidence is the farthest thing from inconclusive. as far as the public is concerned, seeing the factual evidence is becoming less and less important now that al qaeda is stepping up to the plate and assuming responsibility.

  aa
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  joelbear

  How do they decide which countries to help rebuild (Germany and Japan) and which ones not to (Vietnam, Afghanistan)

  seems like it would make since to try to help each of them build an economy.

  once they become consumers with access to a better quality of life, it seems they would become less of a threat.

  Joel
• 

  hillary_step

  bboyneko,

  Ossama was trained by our CIA to overthrow the societ invaders during the late 70's early 80's..at that time russia was our enemy and ossama our friend...well when ossama overthrew the communist invaders he was the enemy and then russia is our friend. Same exact thing happened with cuba

  A governments foreign policy is a far more complex matter than can be defined by the terms, 'friends' and 'enemies'. It is naieve to approach highly complex and long-reaching political scenarios by looking at them through John Wayne's eyes as is so often the case with US foreign policies.

  Every country is a friend and an enemy to each other at the same time. Even Britain spies on the US. Frankly, even the US spies on itself. This is what maintains an equalibrium of sorts and a balance of power. Each country works for its own interests, whether this be achieved by dropping flour, or dropping bombs on other countries.

  The problem with US foreign policy since the inception of the nation is its stunning ignorance of the thinking and inclination of the peoples of other nations.

  A very intersting book that helps one see behind the scenes of diplomacy was written by Kissinger ( the closest that the US has had to a true Foreign Diplomat imho. ) and is entitled 'Diplomacy'. A good read.

  Best regards - HS
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  dubla

  another link to a cnn story: >>> http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/10/10/ret.taliban.ambassador/

  this one contains some of the most ridiculous statements to come out of the taliban yet, such as:

  "Asked about the status of the al Qaeda network, headed by bin Laden, Zaeef said the Taliban did not consider the group to be a terrorist organization.

  He said the Taliban had never supported any terrorist activities and said it was up to America to prove that al Qaeda was a terrorist organization.

  So far, he said, the Taliban had seen no evidence indicating the group was involved in terrorism."