by LtCmd.Lore 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
The Tower of Babel story is quite fascinating. In the book Seeds of Heaven, the author postulates an Intergalactic Federation preventing Earthmen from building a stargate in 3450BC. http://www.seedsofheaven.com/emc2.html Is this any more incredible than the Bible version?
Clam
l-pny (liphne) Yhwh, "before Yhwh," is a very common phrase -- > 200 instances in the HB, the vast majority of which are religious / ritual ("before Yhwh" practically means at the temple / sanctuary / altar / any place of prayer) -- and there was certainly a ritualistic dimension to hunt in Israel as in neighbouring cultures, prior to the Deuteronomistic reform.
Basically, though, the expression works as a transparent spatial metaphor (cf. Latin coram deo), and as such is morally neutral. Any hint of antagonism must be inferred from the context -- and here is completely lacking, apart from the mere name "Babel" which set interpretative tradition on a negative track early on... But Genesis 10 per se has a rather positive onlook on the nations, fulfilling the blessing on Noah's sons.
In any case the writer(s) couldn't have missed the neutrality, or ambiguity, of l-pny. Should they have meant an adverse "before Yhwh," they had many clearer prepositions available -- `al-, Numbers 16:11; b-, Joshua 22:16; even the simple l- would be better suited (Genesis 13:13, "sinners before/against Yhwh," but here of course the antagonism is implied by the noun).
To me this is a good example of drift and stratification in meaning -- we simply don't know where the proverb came from, what it meant in popular culture, what was the point of introducing it into the context of the "table of nations"... but the less we know the more is left to imagination.
I read that thread, it was pretty good. Thanks for bringing it up.
Zico: I Couldn't agree more... I dunno, maybe I sympathize with the 'bad guys' too much. Maybe I should make a topic about E'sau next.
The languages aspect of the story has some holes in it too. According to bible chronology the Tower of Babel story took place about 2400 BC but several written languages have been found that pre-date this, some by a thousand years.
Also Genesis in earlier chapters admits that there were more than one language in the world
Genesis 10v5
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations
Genesis 10v20
These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations
Genesis 10v31
These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations
There's an abrupt change between the end of chapter 10 and the start of the Nimrod story in chapter 11. It looks like a folklore tale that's been added into the Pentateuch at some point without much regard for the content of scriptures around it.
You might as well believe Aesop's 'pride before a fall' type morality tales are literally true.
Interestingly, The Jewish Bible translates verse 9: "He was a mighty hunter by the grace of the LORD; hence the saying, 'Like Nimrod a mighty hunter by the grace of the LORD." I don't think there is a bias here as there is no important doctrine for them to have to defend.
