Buddhism, Taoism, Meditation, and any other Non-Christian Journeys...

by exjdub 40 Replies latest jw friends

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  trevor

  Parakeet

  Please excuse my ignorance. I base my findings on a thorough study of all that is implied by karma. The following quote may be of interest to you:

  If the present life is totally conditioned or wholly controlled by our past actions, then certainly Karma is tantamount to fatalism or determinism or predestination. If this were true, free will would be an absurdity. Life would be purely mechanistic, not much different from a machine. Being created by an Almighty God who controls our destinies and predetermines our future, or being produced by an irresistible Karma that completely determines our fate and controls our life’s course, independent of any free action on our part, is essentially the same. The only difference lies in the two words God and Karma. One could easily be substituted for the other, because the ultimate operation of both forces would be identical.
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  BabaYaga

  I sought no path for many, many years... but found myself gravitating towards more Pagan rituals and beliefs. I then found a person/sanctuary/place of worship and belief system I love... a wonderful Mary of Magdala Gnostic tradition.
  
  Odd, even though I now consider myself to be a Gnostic, it really doesn't matter to me if there is any truth to their mythology or even if Jesus Christ ever existed at all. I am happy experiencing the journey, and it finally feels good to say, "I don't know."
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  parakeet

  trevor: "The following quote may be of interest to you:
  If the present life is totally conditioned or wholly controlled by our past actions, then certainly Karma is tantamount to fatalism or determinism or predestination. If this were true, free will would be an absurdity. Life would be purely mechanistic, not much different from a machine. Being created by an Almighty God who controls our destinies and predetermines our future, or being produced by an irresistible Karma that completely determines our fate and controls our life’s course, independent of any free action on our part, is essentially the same. The only difference lies in the two words God and Karma. One could easily be substituted for the other, because the ultimate operation of both forces would be identical."
  
  
  
  
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  exjdub

  Trevor,

  Parakeet hit on some points that I concur with, however I understand where you are coming from. I think that after you trust a belief, or an organization, as much as we did it does not make one anxious to run into just another framework of belief. I think, however, that that is the beauty of eastern philosophy. Not all of them require a belief in a God or Gods and I think that there is much to glean from the philosophy without jumping into believing in an invisible being pulling strings. I think for me the problem is that I am tired of the Christian view of the world and morals. I find it all so hypocritical and impossible to believe. One thing I do know is that I will never suspend my common sense, nor my healthy dose of cynicism, again. Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me.

  exjdub
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  BabaYaga

  Oh, yes, and dear friends of mine are or were Buddhists... Buddhists ROCK.
  
  Local Thai temples often have a day where they have food for all... cheap or free (yum! Thai food!) usually on a weekend day. It is good to go and mingle in during this informal and open time.
• 

  trevor

  Parakeet

  The quote was taken from The theory of Karma by Ven. Mahasi Sayadaw

  I read through it quickly and stopped short of where he says, ‘Such a fatalistic doctrine is not the Buddhist law of Karma.

  So I have misquoted him and I apologise. He goes on to say:

  ‘Happiness and misery, which are the common lot of humanity, are the inevitable effects of causes. From a Buddhist point of view, they are not rewards and punishments, assigned by a supernatural, omniscient ruling power to a soul that has done good or evil. Theists, who attempt to explain everything in this and temporal life and in the eternal future life, ignoring a past, believe in a ‘post mortem’ justice, and may regard present happiness and misery as blessings and curses conferred on His creation by an omniscient and omnipotent Divine Ruler who sits in heaven above controlling the destinies of the human race. Buddhism, which emphatically denies such an Almighty, All merciful God-Creator and an arbitrarily created immortal soul, believes in natural law and justice which cannot be suspended by either an Almighty God or an All-compassionate Buddha. According to this natural law, acts bear their own rewards and punishments to the individual doer whether human justice finds out or not.’

  Buddhists like to believe that they do not believe in a god that controls rewards and punishes. But It still becomes a religion and another form of belief that is cleverly disguised as freedom. True there is no actual god but an invisible force is believed to be at work which controls our lives.

  All we can do is be good and build up good karma to achieve a better future. When we have earned enough points we ultimately reach a state where karma no longer operates - the equivalent of perfection. I go back to my original point that pursued to its conclusion it has the same effect as most religions.

  The advantage of Christianity is that grace can be achieved simply by faith in Christ, although Christians argue about whether that alone is enough.

  Exjdub

  I hope my comment cover the point you were making - Tha nks.
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  parakeet

  Trevor: "According to this natural law, acts bear their own rewards and punishments to the individual doer whether human justice finds out or not.’
  Buddhists like to believe that they do not believe in a god that controls rewards and punishes. But It still becomes a religion and another form of belief that is cleverly disguised as freedom. True there is no actual god but an invisible force is believed to be at work which controls our lives.
  All we can do is be good and build up good karma to achieve a better future. When we have earned enough points we ultimately reach a state where karma no longer operates"
  
  I'm still not sure how you decided that Buddhists believe "an invisible force ... controls our lives" based on the your quotation. "... acts [freely chosen? does not say] bear their own rewards and punishments ...." If an external, invisible force controls our lives, then it would not be possible for anyone to transcend karma.
  
  BTW, many Buddhists do not believe in reincarnation either.
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  DesertRat

  Whatever or wherever my own 'Truth' may be, I have sensed it at times especially when alone on a high mountain or meditating in the desert, miles from the nearest road..

  Although my main spiritual interest is very definitely along the lines of Earth-based or indigenous wisdom (especially Mayan/Toltec spirituality), I try at all times to remember a principle I once gleaned from a book on Buddhism: 'Open to everything, but attached to nothing..'

  It is the exposure to new ideas & ways of believing, both on this forum & elsewhere, that has made my own journey out of the Org so beautiful & rewarding in spite of the challenges..

  DR
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  parakeet

  DesertRat: "It is the exposure to new ideas & ways of believing, both on this forum & elsewhere, that has made my own journey out of the Org so beautiful & rewarding in spite of the challenges.."
  
  That has been my experience too, DR. Once I was totally free of the WTS, the freedom to explore new things was exhilerating. I've been out of the org for almost 30 years, and the excitement of learning has not abated.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Don't change the thought of the thread, but WTS has made me suspicious of any organized religion. Most of the non-Chirstian Journeys discussed are very noncommittal, open to your own depth of following. Still, I would educate myself at the library and the internet about any belief before I started walking into temples. Try reading appropriate philosophy books for awhile.