to Utopian Reformist re: the Black Panther Party

by reagan_oconnor 17 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  reagan_oconnor

  <I posted this on the "TWO down and counting" thread, but figured it would be seen here.

  For those of you who did not see the thread, Utopian Reformist said:
  

  Earlier Reagan O'Connor stated that internal and external terrorist groups should be examined equally and treated in the same manner.

  While I agree with the statement, I disagree with the sampling of internal terrorist she included in her statement.

  The KKK and Aryan Nation can and should be considered terrorists. Burning crosses, public lynchings and hate mobs should be obvious to all. But you mentioned "Black Panthers". How much research (if any) have you invested in this group?

  Do you know anything about them? Or do they simply appear militant because of their name and because they were black and outspoken critics of our society and government in the 60's?

  Check your research.

  The Black Panthers espoused the concept that Black people had a right to defend themselves against racist authorities by any necessary means, including violence. Gibbs Community Foundation, http://www.gibbsmagazine.com

  In the '60s, …they [the Panthers] also advocated the use of armed resistance to fuel a revolution against what they saw as white oppression and capitalism. Monterey County Herald, April 22, 2000

  The Black Panthers were formed in California in 1966. They believed that the non-violent campaign of Martin Luther King had failed and any promised changes to their lifestyle would take too long to be implemented or simply not introduced. Their language was violent as was their public stance…In 1966, a survey carried out in America showed that less than 5% of African-Americans approved of groups such as the BPP. 60% were positively hostile to such groups. www.byteachers.org.uk

  Some organizations adhered to strictly peaceful protests while others, such as the Panthers … favored peaceful means of achieving equality unless violence was necessary for defense. The lists of courageous men and women who struggled for equality can be quite long. However, it is obvious that the picture of the Panthers lack the presence of women. This failure to acknowledge women in the Panther picture represents the Civil Rights Movement as a whole. With a few exceptions, African American women generally do not receive the credit they deserve for their impact in the 1960’s Civil Rights Movement. Representation of Women in the 1960’s Civil Rights Movement by John Winters, Jr.

  "The BPP did not fully appreciate the necessity for cultural transformation in the movement. Instead, they promoted a "revolutionary culture" that was amorphous and self-serving. It was rooted in a Machiavellian rationalization of Malcolm's "by any means necessary" dicta whereby members simply legitimized their lumpen activities by asserting that these were somehow "revolutionary." This approach was used especially to sexually exploit women, to character assassinate rivals, to rationalize the misuse of BPP funds by the national leadership, to justify internecine violence, or to excoriate rival organizations (such as with the NOI, SNCC, RNA [Republic of New Afrika], and Us organization) within the Black Power movement. This glorified lumpenism was so expansive that Hilliard (1993, pp. 339-339) reports that Huey even came to require that BPP members watch The Godfather, as he began to argue for a "progressive capitalism" (Newton, 1971). Allegedly, the Panther nightclub, The Lamp Post, even became, among other things, a front for prostitution and funding source for Huey's and the Central Committee's personal indulgences." The Shadow of the Panther: Huey Newton and the Price of Black Power in America by Hugh Pearson

  The general assessment is that the BPP used violence to achieve their ends. Granted, in the 70s they focused their efforts in a more positive, community-oriented direction, but the fact remains that they still used violence to reach their goals. This is the point I was making.

  I respect that you may or may not agree with labeling the BPP as a terrorist group – you have that right. However, I would suggest that you do your own research and refrain from making uneducated statements regarding what I do and do not know.

  Regards,
  Reagan

  I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul.
  
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  Thank you for posting your TRUTHFUL and UNBIASED "white" references and sources about the BPP. Did you think I was expecting any less of a response?

  I knew your sources before you quoted. Typical revisionist, biased, mass media, paranoid stylings about any organized african american entity. It was exactly what I expected. Why would a white american consult black sources about a piece of black history? I am not impressed or swayed, even when the sources contain false testimony and falsified accounts provided by FBI informants and FBI moles planted in exchange for immunity from other offenses.

  Something you might consider......
  **********************************************************************

  WHAT WAS THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY?
  The Black Panther Party was a progressive political organization that stood in the vanguard of the most powerful movement for social change in America since the Revolution of 1776 and the Civil War: that dynamic episode generally referred to as The Sixties. It is the sole black organization in the entire history of black struggle against slavery and oppression in the United States that was armed and promoted a revolutionary agenda, and it represents the last great thrust by the mass of black people for equality, justice and freedom.

  The Party's ideals and activities were so radical, it was at one time assailed by FBI chief J. Edgar Hoover as "the greatest threat to the internal security of the United States." And, despite the demise of the Party, its history and lessons remain so challenging and controversial that established texts and media would erase all reference to the Party from American history.

  The Black Panther Party was the manifestation of the vision of Huey P. Newton, the seventh son of a Louisiana family transplanted to Oakland, California. In October of 1966, in the wake of the assassination of black leader Malcolm X and on the heels of the massive black, urban uprising in Watts, California and at the height of the civil rights movement led by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Newton gathered a few of his longtime friends, including Bobby Seale and David Hilliard, and developed a skeletal outline for this organization. It was named, originally, the Black Panther Party for Self Defense. The black panther was used as the symbol because it was a powerful image, one that had been used effectively by the shortlived voting rights group the Lowndes County (Alabama) Freedom Organization. The term "self defense" was employed to distinguish the Party's philosophy from the dominant nonviolent theme of the civil rights movement, and in homage to the civil rights group the Louisiana based Deacons for Defense. These two, symbolic references were, however, where all similarity between the Black Panther Party and other black organizations of the time, the civil rights groups and black power groups, ended.

  Immediately, the leadership of the embryonic Party outlined a Ten Point Platform and Program (see the end of this article for full text). This Platform & Program articulated the fundamental wants and needs, and called for a redress of the longstanding grievances, of the black masses in America, still alienated from society and oppressed despite the abolition of slavery at the end of the Civil War. Moreover, this Platform & Program was a manifesto that demanded the express needs be met and oppression of blacks be ended immediately, a demand for the right to self defense, by a revolutionary ideology and by the commitment of the membership of the Black Panther Party to promote its agenda for fundamental change in America.

  1. To Die for the People, by Huey P. Newton
  2. Revolutionary Suicide, by Huey P. Newton
  3. This Side of Glory, by David Hilliard (Little, Brown, 1993)
  4. A Taste of Power, by Elaine Brown (Pantheon, 1993)
  5. In Search of Common Ground, by Dr. Erik Erikson and Huey P. Newton
  6. LEGACY OF THE PANTHERS, a photographic edition.

  **********************************************************************

  Try examining the BPP from the inside, before swearing by the politically motivated examinations of outside critics. Just a thought!

  By the way, what is YOUR educational background? Graduate, Doctoral Candidate? What is your profession? Are you "unionized" by chance?
  (Let's see if making an assertion about the irish connotations concerning labor unions and corruption can anger Ms. O'Connor - wonder how she feels about taking liberties with people's history)
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  Can Ms. O'Connor or any of her scholarly references name an episode of violence against the white majority that was organized and executed by members of the BPP?

  Other than paranoia and fear on the part of white society, FBI and the government, what other basis did opponents of the BPP have as a foundation? What is the outspoken resolve to finally begin defending onself (a constitutional right) against the KKK?

  Nothing is more insulting and irritating to ethnic people than to have white americans characterize, classify and categorize who we are, who we're supposed to be, who we were and who we're going to be.....
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  Now that I am feeling "involved", let me also state that generalities about ethnic groups spring from ignorance, and/or lack of genuine interest and effort in locating the truth.

  Now we have "informed" vigilantes running around harassing and murdering "SIKH's, ARAB's DRUZE's" and others, who are so "adept" at recognizing and dealing with non-american groups of people.

  It makes me ill. Someday, the shoe will be on the other foot and then people will learn, or want to learn.
• 

  reagan_oconnor

  I suppose that you completely ignored the first quote from the Gibbs Community Foundation, Mifflin W. Gibbs. http://www.gibbsmagazine.com.

  The editorial policy of the magazine is

  a magazine focused on and directed to the African American and ethnic minority communities, it does not promote, subscribe to, or accept racism or racial intolerance as a policy or a behavior.

  .

  I suppose that you are of the opinion that this was a "racist" reference.

  Let's narrow it down, shall we?

  FACT: The BPP assassinated white police officers.
  FACT: The BPP was community-conscious, concerned about protecting the rights of their own people.

  Does their concern and efforts towards community consciousness make it right that they murdered men who were doing their duty by upholding the laws of the United States? Absolutely not. No more than the KKK and their ilk were right in lynching victims simply because of the color of their skin, nor the suicide bombers of last Tuesday, fundamentalist morons taking the lives of thousands for their warped and twisted belief system.

  You have again missed the point of the entire discussion; violence to achieve your ends equates terrorism. KKK, BPP, Osama bin Laden, the message doesn't matter. It's still terrorism.

  I do not expect you to be either "impressed or swayed." Frankly, I do not care.

  Try examining the BPP from the inside

  
  So you are/were a member of the BPP? How nice of you to grace us with your insight.

  (Let's see if making an assertion about the irish connotations concerning labor unions and corruption can anger Ms. O'Connor - wonder how she feels about taking liberties with people's history)

  As to my level of education, I don't see what relevance this has to do with the discussion.

  I would never attempt to "explain away" or "deny" the existence of abuses of power that were a part of the labor unions in the early 20th century. I am also acutely aware of the prejudices levelled against my great-grandparents for being Irish. Seeing the "No Irish Need Apply" signs in the windows of businesses. My great-grandmother knew that the only job she or her daughters would ever be considered for was as a wash woman.

  I am, first and foremost, an American. I happen to be an American of German and Irish heritage. I know the mistakes my forefathers made. I choose not to deny them, or sugar-coat the truth.

  Reagan

  I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul.
  
• 

  LDH

  Loved Ones, UMMMM... May you have 'peace.' ha ha, j/k Shelby.

  Reagan, I'm sure you won't mind if I pick apart your thread with quotes you gave.

  First of all, I am not *PRO* any 'party' that uses the race card, but still, sigh, it was a part of our country's history, so I feel compelled.

  In 1966, a survey carried out in America showed that less than 5% of African-Americans approved of groups such as the BPP. 60% were positively hostile to such groups

  Do you think, in 1966, they surveyed any Blacks, or any other minority? Whenever you conduct a survey, you always have to look at the sample audience, because it reflects only their opinion. It's like taking a survey on being a lesbian, but only asking hetero women.

  the Panthers also advocated the use of armed resistance to fuel a revolution against what they saw as white oppression and capitalism

  I'm wondering if any one in their right mind thinks in 1960, white oppression of blacks didn't exist?!?!?

  . They believed that the non-violent campaign of Martin Luther King had failed and any promised changes to their lifestyle would take too long to be implemented or simply not introduced.

  Hmmm, makes you wonder after the slaying of *three peaceful civil rights workers* (rent the movie Missisippi Burning) had anything to do with them not being willing to sit around and register to vote? And with the assasination of MLK, and the Kennedys some two years off, maybe they had foresight.

  African American women generally do not receive the credit they deserve for their impact in the 1960’s Civil Rights Movement

  Yet, almost every student knows who Rosa Parks is. And technically she did nothing for the civil rights movement, she was just too tired to move. Another example of how our history books have only taught us about the 'peaceful' revolution.

  Reagan, I'm really not coming down hard on you. But I will tell you, that NO revolution is 'peaceful.'

  Since the days of Slave owners, God knows this nation would rather have a million 'Chicken Georges' than 10 "Kunta Kentes". (Rent Roots is you're not sure who I mean)

  The image of strong black men is something we can only accept when they're entertaining us, or playing sports. Otherwise, they are just too intimidating.

  Scientific surveys by credible colleges/universities have shown that the pulse of a white man or woman races when a black man enters the room. That physical change is hightened when that black man has facial hair.

  And there is a big difference between bonafide citizens of a nation DEMANDING their rights (especially when promised in the constitution.) This is a LOT different than the Tim McVeighs or Osama Bin Laden whose message is death and destruction.

  That was NOT the message of the Black Panther Party.

  And no one answered my other question.

  If 'violence' is really what this nation was so concerned about, why was the KKK allowed to hang "Strange Fruit" from so many southern trees for so long? (Strange fruit=young black men)

  Where were the surveys asking Americans what they thought of the KKK and other radical WHITE groups?

  You will never get a full picture of this nation's history by reading only 'approved' publications. Just last week in Sunday's parade magazine was an article about how this country has stolen BILLIONS of dollars from Native Americans by leasing their reservation land and never paying them for it. Where was that in our high school history books?

  Have you ever wondered why Native Americans are portrayed as 'savages'? Wouldn't you be a violent savage if someone came to take what has been in your family for hundreds of years?

  The history of this country as written in most publications is totally skewered.

  Lisa
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  Thank you for YOUR honesty and lack of subjugation to the majority opinion.
• 

  LDH

  PS, Ward Connelly is black and he's done more to set minorities back than anyone I can think of.

  Merely being 'black' doesn't mean everything you speak on black history is so.

  Did you ever watch "In Living Color?" with the black brothers who were Uncle Toms? They were worse that 'ordinary white folk.'

  Lisa
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  It is a know FACT that white police officers claim "self defense" every time a black male has been shot in the past. Do you swallow everything?

  I am glad LDH tears your references apart and in a calm manner. I am not able to detach myself as yet, since this is a very personal subject.

  As to your German-Irish heritage, while signs may have said "Irish Need not Apply" in Boston and New York in the 1840's - 1900's , it was not a racial matter as is commonly portrayed. (You must be an easy target for salespeople).

  Did you even stop to consider once that blacks were providing free labor for four hundred years? Please read something other than the spoon feeding sources, I gave you some references, do yourself a favor and check them out, if you care.

  Your education does matter.
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  These "individuals" are the favorites of white america. We all know why, except Ms. O'Connor.