Was Lot A Righteous Man?

by jayhawk1 50 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    "ungodly" was a term of derision reserved for those who worshipped no god, or more often, worshipped some god other than the god of the Jews.

    Its difficult to recognize how ancient tales have been re-enlisted by modern moralists for purposes not intended by the authors. What would be called "morality" today wasn't always part of religious thinking. Conformity to code, adherance to rite and ritual, community loyalties, these were more virtuous than avoiding sex before marriage or drinking too much.

  • earthtone
    earthtone

    It didn't die Jay, everyone went to . lol

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Noah is expressly called "righteous" (Hebrew çaddiq, Greek dikaios) in Genesis 6:9; 7:1. Lot is not but ancient exegesis (e.g. Wisdom, see my previous post) reads this qualification onto him from Genesis 18:23-28. Indeed in Genesis there is a practical equivalence between being "righteous" and being spared from divine judgement (whence the NT allusions), cf. further 20:7 (Abimelech): "Lord, will you destroy a righteous people?" In that case it only means that Abimelech is innocent of a specific crime, taking over Abraham's wife -- or, more exactly, that he did not commit it willfully, because he didn't know Sarah was Abraham's wife -- which, by the way, indicates a rather sophisticated concept of divine judgement, involving the discrimination of consciousness and intent.

    Still, as peacefulpete pointed out, there is no sense in judging those ancient narratives by 21st-century moral standards.

  • blondie
    blondie
    there is no sense in judging those ancient narratives by 21st-century moral standards.

    I think those that have posted are more concerned how the WTS uses these events and people comparing them to today's JWs. Mercy for Judah and Lot but none for the rank and file in today's WTS.

    Blondie

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    Blondie has a way with putting things in their place.

    My thoughts are exactly as Blondie stated. Watchtower Corp uses Lot, Judah and others as fine examples to follow. They fail to point out how these men are not such great examples to follow. There is very much a double standard.

    Let's put it another way. Let's say the New System is a reality. Would you accept these formerly "saved (judged righteous on this account)" people's behavior?

    If you answer is "no," why does the Watchtower Corp point to these people as good examples?

    If your answer is "yes," how do you justify their behavior?

    I'm sorry, I just don't accept the excuse that it was a different time. I can hardly believe my feelings toward my daughter are so different than people of some 6000 years ago. I doubt the human evolution has been altered that much.

  • JWdaughter
    JWdaughter

    That was a very interesting thread. I remember when they were going over the reading(at the ministry school) and comments on this passage. Yeah, it was messed up, and I could never quite see how Lot came out of it all as some hero, though Narcissus(sp) made some interesting observations. It would be interesting to talk to a rabbi type about this, because Jewish people look on the OT very differently than we at times.

  • JWdaughter
    JWdaughter

    Correction, I am not sure if it was Peaceful Pete or Narcisus or both)

    That was a very interesting thread. I remember when they were going over the reading(at the ministry school) and comments on this passage. Yeah, it was messed up, and I could never quite see how Lot came out of it all as some hero, though Narcissus(sp) made some interesting observations. It would be interesting to talk to a rabbi type about this, because Jewish people look on the OT very differently than we at times.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    From an earlier thread of mine:

    2 Peter 2:6-8 also characterizes the sin of Sodom as sexual but greatly expands on Lot's reaction to the fornication: "He rescued the righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the licentiousness of the wicked, for by what that righteous man saw and heard as he lived among them, he was vexed in his righteous soul day after day with their lawless deeds."

    There is nothing in Genesis about Lot's reaction towards the "wickedness" of Sodom -- indeed there's even a hint that Lot was wicked himself. First, we read in Genesis 13:11-13 that Lot "moved his tent up to Sodom. Now the men of Sodom were evil and very sinful against God". Given a choice of where to live in Canaan, Lot had moved right into Sodom -- a questionable choice at best. Then the "three men" are sent to destroy the cities (cf. 19:13), and Abraham pleads with Yahweh to save the cities if only ten righteous people can be found therein. When the angels arrived at the cities, Lot showed them his gracious hospitality and this is what "won [God's] favor" (v. 19) and "Yahweh felt pity for him" (v. 16). So if Lot did not show his kindness, he might have perished (as did his sons-in-law in his household, 19:14-15, 31). Thus Philo (Questions and Answers in Genesis 4:54) concluded: "Lot was saved not for his own sake so much as for the sake of the wise man, Abraham, who had offered prayers for him," and Origen (Homilies on Genesis 5:3) remarked: "If he was able to escape Sodom, as Scripture indicates, he owed this more to Abraham's merits than his own". Yet 2 Peter characterizes Lot as a righteous man who was disturbed by the sin that he witnessed in the cities. This assertion was anticipated by Wisdom 10:6-8 which intimated that Lot was "a righteous man" and the Alphabet of Ben Sira, 268 later referred to Lot as "a wholly righteous man".

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67328/1.ashx

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    We all know the only true part in the story of Lot is when his wife looked back and was turned into a pillar of salt - because women never do as they're told and they're nosy bitches!

    Ian

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow
    We all know the only true part in the story of Lot is when his wife looked back and was turned into a pillar of salt - because women never do as they're told and they're nosy bitches!

    Someone's asking for trouble when half a dozen of us "nosy bitches" get together in October.....

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