by enlightenedcynic 78 Replies latest jw experiences
You have a tough choice to make here. You can stay in it for the long haul, but there are NO GUARANTEES either way. Ten years down the road you may feel you can no longer live a lie, and end up losing your wife AND your children to shunning. If you leave the cult now, you will likely lose your wife, but still have access to your children, and you may succeed in freeing them from the cult because you'll have the freedom to teach them the truth about it while they're still young.
W
So in order for me to effectively win my wife over, I will have to demonstrate an equal zeal for the wt rubbish! Then, when she feels safe and comfortable with me(what 10 years from now?...(smile)..), I should be able to begin trying to reason with her on certain topics.
enlightenedcynic, you've just had a nasty shock, so it's natural right now to operate from a worst-case scenario.
However, this is a trap. Break out of it.
Amazing1914 is the Grand Master of family cult-escape. Slow and subtle is how he did it, and the linch pin is family Bible studies (not Watchtower Publication Studies) at which freedom of thought is extended to all - so sit down with your Bible and concentrate in depth on her favorite scriptures, as a treat - and encourage her to speak her mind. Let it be fairly loosely framed - leave plenty of room for sudden realizations, questions, tangents, and other forms of mental enjoyment.
The other key strategy is to show her how nourishing and liberating certain aspects of worldly life can be; you know, the whole Fun with the Golden Rule thing. Have fun with good works.
Don't forget innocent pleasures of all kinds: excursions (on weekends and meeting nights) to her favorite inspirational places, whether that be a getaway to the mountains or an art museum or Cirque du Soleil or whatever floats her boat.
Another essential source of spiritual nourishment is the use of her gifts - art, music, a passion for history or gardening or cooking, any pleasurable exercise of skill and mind. Don't only encourage her to do so - let her see you doing so yourself, and take part in her enjoyment of her adventures.
drew sagan is the latest spiritual trapeze artist to achieve this feat. Last year, ithinkisee accomplished it after many a few years of patience. Check out their threads on this subject.
gently feral Christmas Doesn't Come Often Enough class
You know about the 2 witness rule? If my wife would have done that to me, I would have said, that she was the one looking up the apostate info and that I gave her the first chance to go to the elders [which is the proper protocol] and that she just took the first swing, I would have thrown it back on her and there is nothing she or the elders could do. and from now on do as I do, even though my wife is against the society, I still every day delete the history and temp. files. You are in a very bad situation, she will stop at nothing to either make you tow the line or catch you red handed. I would not put it past someone like this to even video tape you on line, Watch your back. Very sad to have to say this about your own household. She will even turn the kids against you. They can't get two witnesses against you unless you talk to other dubbers. You can tell your wife you hate hova and the whole idea of god and the society is just a made up bunch of carp. then when she runs to the stazi, you can say I have no idea what she is talking about, she is just trying to get out of the marriage with out being the bad guy. These elders are usually very nasty but not to smart.
Although I am not a JW, never have been, I can speak from some experience. I saw my wife of 20 years totally morf from a loving woman and mate into a JW robot. Base on your story I think you should strongly consider bailing out now and live a normal a life as you can. I certainly don't know you or your wife, but I think your wife will be "on your case" for the rest of your life if you don't.
I've told my story several times on different active topics on the forum. I am ex-Navy and while at sea (in Japan. My ex-wife was a Japanese National), and the kids in school, they came knocking. The rest is history. She kept her involvement (free bible Study, going to meetings, etc.) a secret from me until I found out by accident (found a watchtower magazine) 9 months after she started. Although she tried (more like play-acted) to be the loving wife, it was quite obvious that her purposes in life now were focused around what the WTBS/JWs wanted her to do, not what she previously did as a loving mother and wife (and she was a very good wife. We had a good life/marriage/family). She started dressing and acting different. Letters to me while at sea were just a listing of bible quotes. After I discovered her involvement she tried her best to get me to sign up, and our children (thank God I did not, nor did I allow the kids to). Several times, on meeting nights, I tried to get her to go out for a nice dinner, or just a night out to a movie or something. Each time she called an elder (I suspect) to get permission, and each time she was told to attend the meeting rather than go out with me, and she did. One night I got angry with her and demanded her and I go out. She said yes, but again called someone (an elder I guess), and no sooner had she hung up the phone she was out the door (literally running) saying something out "dieing spiritually." During these times when I tried to just be a loving husband I felt like I had to get permission from my father first just to go on a date with my wife. Of course all of the holidays we celebrated together as a family were not as they had been in the past, and her participation was totally out of the question. On Saturdays, really my only free day of the week, I would try to set up a picnic, or just a day at the beach. It seemed she always had to clean her KH and be gone the entire day. It's amazing, and still bothers me to no end, that the elders had, and still have I suspect (we were divorced in 2003), total control over her.
Sorry to ramble, but based on what I went through, and you probably know this already, you essentially have two choices; have a normal life as you see fit, or have a life as your wife and the elders see fit. I wish you all the best. Whatever you decide, stay in touch with the good folks on this forum.
I am so sorry.
Your marriage seems to be turning into a facade rather than a genuine joining of two people.
1: There is obviously no trust.
2: There is no mutual respect.
3: Sex is becoming the focus of mind games.
Next time your wife drags you in front of the Inquisitor, break down, tell them you are overwhelmed with guilt because she loves you to go down on her, and you know it is an unnatural act. How she responds in her own defence will speak volumes: does she start making counter accusations to focus on you? Will she sacrifice you to save herself? (Remember 1984 - "NO don't do it to me - do it to Julia"
I do not doubt that either one of you would say you love each other, but is it total unconditional love, a joining of soulmates?
What are your children going to grow up like seeing the example you are setting them? Doing the good dub father act could well backfire when they grow up to be witlesses of the most conflicted sort, with personality disorders caused by a constant drone of cognative dissonance in their heads.
Can you happily accept that as baptized adults they could well let your grandchild die after an accident over the blood issue?
When the kids are adult, and you finally leave the Lie, could you be happy that they shun you and do not allow you to see your grandchildren? Your wife will almost certainly treat you like this when that day comes.
HB
That's the classic cultic behaviour complete with information control, it shows how cults mess up marriages with spouses spying and reporting back to the org.
If you had pursued your doubts and questions they wouldn't be able to answer them but they would none the less put sanctions on you, that's how arrogant they are.
Although I haven't commented yet, I've been keeping an eye on your post. Lemme make a suggestion...
So in order for me to effectively win my wife over, I will have to demonstrate an equal zeal for the wt rubbish! Then, when she feels safe and comfortable with me(what 10 years from now?...(smile)..), I should be able to begin trying to reason with her on certain topics.
Sorry, but I can't see this working. At the moment, her love for you and her love for "jehovah" is teedering and toddering back and forth. You're appealing to her natural desires with oral sex, and it has been sorta working. Unfortunately, you keep getting cockblocked by the Watchtower.
Work more at appealing to a woman's (and human's) natural desires (not necessarily sexual). Encourage her to let off some steam about things that piss her off about the WT. Make the obvious more obvious. When she's on her period, encourage her to go for chocolate ice cream instead of the meeting. When she's had a bad day, treat her to an evening in a hot tub instead of a meeting.
Natural human desire is stronger than anything the Watchtower can implant. You already have her enjoying oral sex, don't stop there! Use the "Jehovah created us to enjoy..." line on her.
Back off on the facts about the WTS, and focus on the human desire. Get her immunity to the WT lectures going.
Another technique you could try was used by the communists during the Korean War.
American soldiers who were totally loyal to their country were converted successfully to become communist by a very simple technique.
During interrogation they refused to say derogatory things about the United States.
Over time however they were persuaded to point out just one thing that was wrong with their country. It didn't matter how trivial. That one thing opened a tiny trickle in the Dyke. It became easier and easier to make ever more scathing criticisms, until saying their side was wrong seemed like just another baby step.
Find one little thing that your wife does not like about the Borg. Take it from there.
HB
Dear Enlightened,
I too did not have the greatest results when I told my husband. Our issue first started out with the whole 607 thing. I am the one who brought it to his attention only after a whole sleepless night pent on the computer, dedperatly trying to find answers as to why the JWS are the only ones to teach this date. My husband wuickly took things into control and read to me from the Appendix which calmed my fears. But not for long. I could not forget what I had read from so many different sources that night. He wasn't willing to really examine what I had found. He expected me to drop the issue. For a number of weeks this issue haunted me. I was depressed and found myself back searching again for answers.
When my husband realized that I infact was researching again, he was frustrated and scared. I will never forget our conversation. He told me, "you do know where this is going to end up if you continue on the path your on don't you? If you want to keep this up I gaurentee that it won't be long when you will be all by your self! He didn't raise his voice, but he was never more serious. My ears were ringing and I could of heard a pin drop. I told him that I loved him dearly but that I had to have this cleared up in my mind so I could get it behind me. He promised he would research this with me. So.. the next day, we went back to the computer, and once again, he pulled up the Kingdom Come Appendix from the Watchtower Library. He said sarcastically, "I just don't see what is so difficult to understand??!!" I tried hard not to snap back. I said, "No! Prove to me the date 607 WITHOUT using ANY of the SoOcietys literature! If infact that is a real date for the fall of Jerusalem then there will be proof." He said, "OK!" He agreed. But he was still very cocky.
Well, after 5 hours of intence research, he was speechless. He turned off the computer, and said, "Your right. There IS NO PROOF for 607! It was INFACT 586/587." Then he wanted to know WHY the Society would be teaching something untruthful...one thing led to another. AMd here we are. TOGETHER, and UNITED, happier than EVER before!!
So HANG IN THERE!! THe Societys grip is hard. But slowly, gently, you can win her over with bible "truths"!!
One side note: Has anyone ever noticed why the Watchtower CD Roms only go back just so far?? I always wondered why. Now it is obvious why. That is why the P.O. felt safe to tell you all you need is on there.
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
EC -
Please find the last watchtower that mentions oral sex. You will note that it said oral sex between unmarried persons was fornication. That was a major change from it's original stance that all oral sex was immoral. Find it - show it to your wife - and enjoy!
She can be guilt free . . .
