Answer from the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"

by Lilycurly 64 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lilycurly
    Lilycurly

    *Barf-Bag Warning*

    Some of you might remember my situation....I have DAed myself a while ago, and my father is the only JW in the family. Since I am very close to him and the family, he has read everything related to shunning, he even asked elders and even them are not sure. So he wrote a big long letter to Bethel to have an answer. Surprisingly, they wrote back (two months later)

    (Sorry for the translation...) I'm just gonna write parts of it because it's long and boring.

    Dear brother ******,

    You informed us that your daughter has DAed herself of the christian congregation. Like you said, your desire is to "be sincerely faithful in every way to Jehovah and his organization" You also want to be certain to understand things the same way the faithful and discret slave does, because you have an immense confidence in them. We congratulate you for your excellent attitude.

    You asked if the expression "does not live under the same roof" means something other then "not part of close family circle". Or is it only synonymous?

    The two expressions are not synonymous. A person that is part of close family circle does not have to live under the family roof. We have to ask ourself, who is "close family circle"

    blablabla

    When someone as close and dear as a daughter DAes herself, it is truly traumatizing to a father, and the hurt in your heart is certainly understandable. Naturally, you desire with all your heart that your daughter comes back to her relations with Jehovah. As you know, the christian congregation is merciful, as is Jehovah. But if sinners don't want to repent, the faithful christians are obligated to recognize them as they have become to Jehovah's eyes.

    The Bible does not make any exception when it declares that a chritian should "cease to associate with someone who is called brother and who is a fornicator, greedy, idole-worshipping, insulting, drunkard, or thief (**Yeah, I'm all of those alright!***) one shouldn't even eat with such a person."

    To some, it might seem unloving or even cruel to not even salute a close one, but true christians know by experience that to act according to God's word will bring good results, while wining God's benediction. It can be dangerous to let ourselves being led by our emotions. (****)

    By respection the excommunication decret, faithful ones are protected in the case where the excommunicated person might try to persuade other people to follow her wrong way. We also hope that this draconian action will bring them back to reason. The fact that they can not associate with members of her christian family, nor her old spiritual brothers and sisters () should bring the sinner to seek that loving, warm camaraderie. But if they have the impression that nothing has changed, it will not help him. In fact, it could keep them from making the necessary steps to getting reintegrated.

    We understand that this is difficult. The human tendancy is to continue to associate with our family members. But as we said before, experience shows that it is highly preferable to do things as Jehovah wants them. Even if that doesn't seem like this to humans, the best way to show that we really love an excommunicated parent living outside the family roof is to respect faithfully the Bible's rules about how to act with excommunicated. When parents act this way, and they explain clearly at the start, why they conform to Bible principle and stop every association, assuring the excommunicated children that they will impatiently wait for his reintegration, results are often excellent. In the past, some people have not acted that way, and it usually didn't encourage the person to come back. It has even been spiritualy detrimental to most of them. It can even reinforced the tendancy to tale their sin lightly, and have an even more rebellious attitude.

    We hope that the previous information will help you to see your question in the light of the holy scriptures. We pray that Jehovah helps and supports you, when you chose to hold on to obtain benediction in spite of the pain in your heart, brought by the fact that your dauhter doesn't currently enjoy Jehovah's favor. Remember, brother ******

    and blablabla...

    Your brothers*****

    This is really barf-worthy, what bothers me even more is to realise how much faith my own father puts in them. And also the fact that they sincerely think that shunning brings back people to their cult! The strange thing is, my dad is still confused.......he is still pretty sure that he can talk to me...opinions?

  • Scully
    Scully
    a christian should "cease to associate with someone who is called brother and who is; a fornicator, greedy, idol-worshipping, insulting, drunkard, or thief



    Lilycurly

    I think your father knows you better than The Christian™ Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses™ ever could. And I think he knows you are not any of the things mentioned in this passage.

    Thanks for sharing the letter. I'm really glad I haven't had breakfast yet.

  • Hecklerboy
    Hecklerboy

    Any religion that forces you to stop associating with a family member is a cult. Plain and simple.

    Tell your father to follow his heart and not what men say.

    I mean they are going into symantics. Talking about the meaning of certain words and phrases instead of the spirit of the law.

    They are just like the Pharasies.

  • Lilycurly
    Lilycurly

    The thing is....he doesn't *want* to shun me! He himself sees that if he does, HE will be the shuned one, because he's the only witness and the rest of the family will be mad at HIM. Now one elder told him he could associtae with me, but the other said no. And this week he's gonna ask the P.O.??(Is that the one??You know the guy and his wife who visit once or twice a year?) He really wants to find a way out of shunning me.

  • gumby
    gumby
    The fact that they can not associate with members of her christian family, nor her old spiritual brothers and sisters () should bring the sinner to seek that loving, warm camaraderie. But if they have the impression that nothing has changed, it will not help him. In fact, it could keep them from making the necessary steps to getting reintegrated.

    What they are saying is.....".Our policy of treating your close loved ones like they are dirt works really well! Some feel so bad they kill themselves, have nervous breakdown and shit! Mothers who lose their cherished daughters will feel so horrible they are forced to join us again or we'll see to it these ones are miserable for the rest of their lives! Punishment is the answer!"

    Hopefully your father will see you do not fit the scripture mentioned.....however they also like to use the one on 2John when they cannot find anything morally wrong with a desenter. This is the one that says.."they went out from us as they were not of our sort". Tell your dad it's the' Organisation' you left....not god or christ as that scripture has reference to.

    Gumby

    Gumby

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    Lilly, your father could associate with you and not tell anybody. It's not at all uncommon for JW's to visit churches for weddings and what not, the only counsel they receive is to not tell anybody. (Yes, I'm serious. The elders will tell you to go, just keep it quiet.)

    So he wouldn't be outside the normally expected circle of behavior to do something that others might not, so long as he keeps it to himself. Something to consider at least.

    The Bible does not make any exception when it declares that a chritian should "cease to associate with someone who is called brother and who is a fornicator

    Nor does it make any exception for husbands with apostate wives, or "necessary family business". Those exceptions come from the Watchtower and have zero-scriptural support. Why do they make those exceptions with no biblical backing, but refuse to make any others? Then they have the gall to call it "god's way".

    Bastards.

    Dave

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere
    The thing is....he doesn't *want* to shun me! He himself sees that if he does, HE will be the shunned one, because he's the only witness and the rest of the family will be mad at HIM. Now one elder told him he could associate with me, but the other said no. And this week he's gonna ask the P.O.??(Is that the one??You know the guy and his wife who visit once or twice a year?) He really wants to find a way out of shunning me.

    Amazing. :Jehovers Organization can't seem to get its story straight. So much for "truth". If he goes with the advice of the elder who said it was OK he faces the possibility of being DFed by a judicial committee of other elders.

  • Scully
    Scully
    The thing is....he doesn't *want* to shun me! He himself sees that if he does, HE will be the shuned one, because he's the only witness and the rest of the family will be mad at HIM. Now one elder told him he could associtae with me, but the other said no. And this week he's gonna ask the P.O.??(Is that the one??You know the guy and his wife who visit once or twice a year?) He really wants to find a way out of shunning me.

    The Circuit Overseer will likely advise your father to take a very hard line with you. However, if you let him know that it is not OK to Stumble™ non-JW family members who do not understand what shunning is supposed to accomplish, that could be the way he can get out of doing this to you.

    That's how my JW family can get away with associating with us - it only ever happens when there are non-JW relatives attending a function too (like weddings, etc).

  • Bumble Bee
    Bumble Bee

    Hello Lilycurly,

    It seems like your dad really doesn't want to shun you, but is looking for others to tell him that he has to, that way it takes the responisibility off of his shoulders. If he gets someone to tell him that he HAS to shun you, he can then say, well, I'm just following orders, I don't want to shun you but so and so says I have to.

  • Legolas
    Legolas

    MY gawd isn't that the STUPIDEST thing when a father HAS to ask another person PERMISSION to speak with his OWN daughter!

    WAKE UP ALL YOU LURKERS OUT THERE!

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