To Wt apologists - this is all that mattered to me... please address

by AK - Jeff 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ozziepost

  G'day Megadude!

  'owyergoinmate?

  The JWs are fond of saying, Jehovah has always had an organization

  Mrs Ozzie and I heard this over and over again on the afternoon we were visited to inform us that since we had walked away, we were DFed!

  Despite its repetition, I still find it unsupported by scripture, why, Jesus didn't even establish an organisation to carry on his work! Instead it was left to followers with disparate views. The WTS is fond of showing Acts 15 as an example of the first GB meeting but the texts both in Acts and also in Galatians don't support that conjecture.

  Of course, those controlling the WTS, or whatever it's been reincarnated as these days, need the "God's chosen organisation" teaching. As AK-Jeff points out, without it, it falls like a pack of cards.

  Cheers, Ozzie
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  quango

  Jeff - I'll try to explain my view & hope this makes sense...

  To illustrate - many people have strong political views & join a political party.In the UK where I live (for obvious reasons , I won't say where!) many party members disagree even on fundamental issues with their party leaders. For example , many Labour members , even MPs disagree with Tony Blair on the Iraq war or on his educational reforms. But they don't generally resign from the party because they essentially agree with the "overall" package , as it were.If they do , they either "fade" or occasionally join another party.

  I'm a religious person - I believe fundamentally in a Creator God & that he sent His son Jesus to die for us. The moral framework , structure & basic doctrines of Jehovah's witnesses appeal. I'm convinced that to preach a message worldwide in numerous languages requires some form of organisational structure. All religions have some kind of "human" leadership directing the troops who claim to be authorised by God.

  I know there are some witnesses who are dogmatic , think the society is "wonderful" & hang on every word , just as there are political party members who are "worshippers" of their leaders , as it were. But most are not like that - they simply agree with the overall package.
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  AlmostAtheist

  I know there are some witnesses who are dogmatic , think the society is "wonderful" & hang on every word , just as there are political party members who are "worshippers" of their leaders , as it were. But most are not like that - they simply agree with the overall package.

  Hi Quango,

  Were you ever a JW? I ask because JW's are unlike most other religions in that most of their members really do believe it all. There are some that quietly question a thing or two, but there is absolutely no vocal dissent. It is as far from a democracy as you can imagine. They call it a "theocracy", which gives it the air of being from God. But of course it is just a man-made ruleset with the odd scripture here and there to give it an appearance of biblical support.

  There are many Catholics that use birth control and even some that feel abortion is ok. And they say so publicly and in their church. But such behavior is not tolerated among JW's. If a JW tried that sort of thing, he'd be disfellowshipped. After which, even his own mother and own children would not be allowed to speak to him.

  Dave
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  AK - Jeff

  I

  know there are some witnesses who are dogmatic , think the society is "wonderful" & hang on every word , just as there are political party members who are "worshippers" of their leaders , as it were. But most are not like that - they simply agree with the overall package.

  Not true in my 45 years of experience with Jw's as my religion, Quango.

  Jehovah's witnesses are required by the organization to 'agree with the whole package'. To do otherwise is to invite excommunication. There is not, as in your illustration of political parties, a left, right and moderate position. There is only a black/white position. No dissenters are allowed. And my basic experience has been that there are no dissenters. At least not any willing to express dissent at all. There have become a higher percentage of 'secret dissenters' now, due to the attempt on their parts to keep from being expelled and loosing the entire family into the borg, but even that 'secret dissent' is due to the organizations harsh rules.

  Nearly all religions have degrees of loyalists. With Jw you are 100% in - or 100% out if they find you are not 100% in. Period.

  Hence the reason for this board and others like it. I have not been expelled but not a single witness will talk to me due to just a suspicion that I have views that don't harmonize with the Crooklyn office.

  From what perspective do your observations arise?

  Jeff
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  BluesBrother

  Quango, Anybody having "private thoughts " on any matter of doctrine is well advised to keep them to himself.. Dissent is definitely not permitted, in all my years as an elder - you buy the whole package and all the details, or else!!

  So what were the Bible Students up to in 1919 when they were purportedly chosen to be the nucleus of the "new nation"? Admittedly they had some core doctrines such as the Ransom, The non immortal soul and Christ's parousia that still agree with J W teaching. But there was also :

  The pyramidology, The use of the cross, They celebrated birthdays and Christmas . They failed to stop smoking tobacco and blood transfusions . They had no clear view of a paradise earth. They believed the time of the end had begun in 1874 .. No doubt there were a lot of other points.

  Really , all they had going for them [in theory at least] was sincerity and willingness. But what does the Society say about sincerity? That it is useless without accurate knowlege, and accurate knowlege they definitely did not have .
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  Desino

  Dave, I love your humor. It made me chuckle hehe.

  Please grab your towel and modest bathing attire, drop your brain in that bin over there with the others, and follow the attendants...

  I know what you mean. From the WTS you are told what to think. What freaks me out in the WTS control system, is that you are not allowed to question any doctrines/teaching from the GB.