Protector of pedophiles

by Norm 29 Replies latest jw friends

  • Norm
    Norm

    JEHOVAH, High protector and GOD of the pedophile.

    In Biblical days, when women and children, male children excepted of course, being considered little more than cattle and livestock, to have sex with children was just one additional “privilege” of the MALE. You know, those who had the good fortune to be born with a penis. In a society like that you had to be quick and start at an early age to be able to "scoop up" a virgin.

    We are probably all familiar with the story about David, being of advanced age and not always up to “performance” had a “virgin” brought in to give him sexual pleasure in his old age. It had to be a “virgin” of course because nothing could be more detestable to those favorites of the great Jehovah than already “opened” children.

    Already in the beginning of the Bible we get acquainted with Jehovah and his compassion for “unopened” female children. Moses which was elected by Jehovah himself as his representative was extremely displeased with his soldiers because they disobeyed the explicit orders to butcher all the people of Mid'i•an:

    *** Rbi8 Numbers 31:14-18 ***
    And Moses grew indignant at the appointed men of the combat forces, the chiefs of the thousands and the chiefs of the hundreds who were coming in from the military expedition. 15 So Moses said to them: “Have YOU preserved alive every female? 16 Look! They are the ones who, by Ba'laam’s word, served to induce the sons of Israel to commit unfaithfulness toward Jehovah over the affair of Pe'or, so that the scourge came upon the assembly of Jehovah. 17 And now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with man by lying with a male. 18 And preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male.

    Those softie Israelites was actually “thinking” for themselves and found that butchering all the girl-child’s would be a total waste of sexual possibilities. I mean here they had to butcher the parents, the male children and all, it seemed such a waste to squander all that good sex with none of those pesky parents to interfere, so what the hell was Moses and Jehovah thinking about? The wonderful “word of God” give us a little hint of the number of children in question:

    *** Rbi8 Numbers 31:31-41 ***
    31 And Moses and El•e•a'zar the priest went doing just as Jehovah had commanded Moses. 32 And the booty, the rest of the plunder that the people of the expedition had taken as plunder, amounted to six hundred and seventy-five thousand of the flock, 33 and seventy-two thousand of the herd, 34 and sixty-one thousand asses. 35 As for human souls from the women who had not known the act of lying with a male, all the souls were thirty-two thousand.

    This must have been one of the most astonishing pedophile parties in history. Imagine, the Israelite men had no less than 32000 girl children to their disposal. Have you ever wondered how these men was able to find out which of these girls had “had intercourse with man by lying with a male.” What method did they use to ascertain this fact? According to the Bible they found 32000 virgins. Have you ever thought about the sheer scale of investigation? How many girls did they have to examine to find those 32000? Twice the number perhaps?

    What wonderful times those must have been. What a wonderful people and what a magnificent God they worshipped! Imagine that, he really looked after his people by keeping them with child sex slaves in abundance. How grateful we all can be to have these upbuilding lessons from the “Word of God”.

    Norm.

  • MrMoe 2
    MrMoe 2

    No way.. I have to be misunderstanding that. Now I am confused and grossed out. Will somebody please explain...

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    In order to provide additional insight into this account, I am pasting the entire chapter from the Jewish Publications Society TORAH. After reading the account scroll to the bottom for alternative viewpoints:

    **********************************************************************

    Numbers Chapter 31
    1The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2Avenge the Israelite people on the Midianites; then you shall be gathered to your kin. 3Moses spoke to the people, saying, Let men be picked out from among you for a campaign, and let them fall upon Midian to wreak the Lords vengeance on Midian. 4You shall dispatch on the campaign a thousand from every one of the tribes of Israel. 5So a thousand from each tribe were furnished from the divisions of Israel, twelve thousand picked for the campaign. 6Moses dispatched them on the campaign, a thousand from each tribe, with Phinehas son of Eleazar serving as a priest on the campaign, equipped with the sacred utensils ( Perhaps the Urim; cf. 27.21.) and the trumpets for sounding the blasts. 7They took the field against Midian, as the Lord had commanded Moses, and slew every male. 8Along with their other victims, they slew the kings of Midian: Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba, the five kings of Midian. They also put Balaam son of Beor to the sword. 9The Israelites took the women and children of the Midianites captive, and seized as booty all their beasts, all their herds, and all their wealth. 10And they destroyed by fire all the towns in which they were settled, and their encampments. 11They gathered all the spoil and all the booty, man and beast, 12and they brought the captives, the booty, and the spoil to Moses, Eleazar the priest, and the whole Israelite community, at the camp in the steppes of Moab, at the Jordan near Jericho. 13Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the chieftains of the community came out to meet them outside the camp. 14Moses became angry with the commanders of the army, the officers of thousands and the officers of hundreds, who had come back from the military campaign. 15Moses said to them, You have spared every female! 16Yet they are the very ones who, at the bidding of Balaam, induced ( Meaning of Heb. hayu ... limsor uncertain.) the Israelites to trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, so that the Lords community was struck by the plague. 17Now, therefore, slay every male among the children, and slay also every woman who has known a man carnally; 18but spare every young woman who has not had carnal relations with a man. 19You shall then stay outside the camp seven days; every one among you or among your captives who has slain a person or touched a corpse shall cleanse himself on the third and seventh days. 20You shall also cleanse every cloth, every article of skin, everything made of goats hair, and every object of wood. 21Eleazar the priest said to the troops who had taken part in the fighting, This is the ritual law that the Lord has enjoined upon Moses: 22Gold and silver, copper, iron, tin, and lead23 any article that can withstand fire these you shall pass through fire and they shall be clean, except that they must be cleansed with water of lustration; and anything that cannot withstand fire you must pass through water. 24On the seventh day you shall wash your clothes and be clean, and after that you may enter the camp. 25The Lord said to Moses: 26You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community take an inventory of the booty that was captured, man and beast, 27and divide the booty equally between the combatants who engaged in the campaign and the rest of the community. 28You shall exact a levy for the Lord: in the case of the warriors who engaged in the campaign, one item in five hundred, of persons, oxen, asses, and sheep, 29shall be taken from their half-share and given to Eleazar the priest as a contribution to the Lord; 30and from the half-share of the other Israelites you shall withhold one in every fifty human beings as well as cattle, asses, and sheep all the animals and give them to the Levites, who attend to the duties of the Lords Tabernacle. 31Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses. 32The amount of booty, other than the spoil that the troops had plundered, came to 675,000 sheep, 3372,000 head of cattle, 3461,000 asses, 35and a total of 32,000 human beings, namely, the women who had not had carnal relations. 36Thus, the half-share of those who had engaged in the campaign [was as follows]: The number of sheep was 337,500, 37and the Lords levy from the sheep was 675; 38the cattle came to 36,000, from which the Lords levy was 72; 39the asses came to 30,500, from which the Lords levy was 61. 40And the number of human beings was 16,000, from which the Lords levy was 32. 41Moses gave the contributions levied for the Lord to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord had commanded Moses. 42As for the half-share of the other Israelites, which Moses withdrew from the men who had taken the field, 43that half-share of the community consisted of 337,500 sheep, 4436,000 head of cattle, 4530,500 asses, 46and 16,000 human beings. 47From this half-share of the Israelites, Moses withheld one in every fifty humans and animals; and he gave them to the Levites, who attended to the duties of the Lords Tabernacle, as the Lord had commanded Moses. 48The commanders of the troop divisions, the officers of thousands and the officers of hundreds, approached Moses. 49They said to Moses, Your servants have made a check of the warriors in our charge, and not one of us is missing. 50So we have brought as an offering to the Lord such articles of gold as each of us came upon: armlets, bracelets, signet rings, earrings, and pendants, ( See note at Exod. 35.22.) that expiation may be made for our persons before the Lord. 51Moses and Eleazar the priest accepted the gold from them, all kinds of wrought articles. 52All the gold that was offered by the officers of thousands and the officers of hundreds as a contribution to the Lord came to 16,750 shekels. 53 But in the ranks, everyone kept his booty for himself. 54So Moses and Eleazar the priest accepted the gold from the officers of thousands and the officers of hundreds and brought it to the Tent of Meeting, as a reminder in behalf of the Israelites before the Lord.

    Click here to go to Chapter 32

    Copyright (c) 1985, Jewish Publication Society. All Rights Reserved.

    **********************************************************************

    Notice that the age of the captive girls is NOT mentioned. The hebrew rendered here simply translates as "young girls". Since the age cannot be determined, and the command was to ensure they were virgins, and we know the Isrealites practiced slavery, is it not possible the captives were simply distributed as "slave girls" amongst the warrior's households?

    There are other accounts regarding slave girls in the scriptures. Consider the account of the slave girl who told her master to visit the prophet in isreal and bathe in the jordan to cure leprosy. There a young girl is also described, who was in servitude.

    Nowhere in the account do we find a specific purpose outlined for the young girls. Therefore, it may be extreme to assume a sexual purpose existed, unless there is further evidence to suggest it.

    Just my two cents!

  • Norm
    Norm

    Hello MrMoe,

    You said:

    No way.. I have to be misunderstanding that. Now I am confused and grossed out. Will somebody please explain...

    Well, correct me if I am wrong but in another thread on the board which you started you claim to be still believing in God. Here is the God of the Bible which according to yourself you "believe" in. It seems to me you haven't actually read the Bible much have you? You should do that to find out what kind of a God you believe in, right? It is usually very educational.

    Now to "Utopian Reformist".

    You said:

    Notice that the age of the captive girls is NOT mentioned. The hebrew rendered here simply translates as "young girls". Since the age cannot be determined, and the command was to ensure they were virgins, and we know the Isrealites practiced slavery, is it not possible the captives were simply distributed as "slave girls" amongst the warrior's households?

    There are other accounts regarding slave girls in the scriptures. Consider the account of the slave girl who told her master to visit the prophet in isreal and bathe in the jordan to cure leprosy. There a young girl is also described, who was in servitude.

    Nowhere in the account do we find a specific purpose outlined for the young girls. Therefore, it may be extreme to assume a sexual purpose existed, unless there is further evidence to suggest it.

    Just my two cents!

    Well, I don't see how this piece of special pleading "explain" anything. Jehovah had ordered a total genocide and Moses was inflamed because those "stubborn" Israelites had spared women and children. So he gave a little concession and reluctantly permitted them to spare some female children. What is described here is what we today understand as genocide, which righly earn those who do it the scorn and contempt they derserve. The God of the Bible and the Israelite of course deserve our contempt, scorn and loathing for committing such atrocities back then. No matter how much special pleading and handwaving is done, what the Bible describe is revolting and sickening and inexcusable.

    Norm.

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    Norm:

    I have to admit I do agree with you regarding the apparent genocide that many religionists might simply dismiss as a cleansing of rural canaan.

    Believe me, I am extremely skeptical about many biblical accounts. However, in this instance, you began the thread alleging that the captured young girls were being reserved for pedophilia and that was the motive for the annihilation of the parents and male children.

    That is the only part I disagree with thus far, even though the other opinions and viewpoints you expressed might be valid. I agree the marriage age was definitely much younger in a male dominated and oppressed society. However, in critique of the scriptures, the account does NOT mention anything about reserving the young girls for pedophilia or for sexual purposes. It is an allegation.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    Believe me, I am extremely skeptical about many biblical accounts. However, in this instance, you began the thread alleging that the captured young girls were being reserved for pedophilia and that was the motive for the annihilation of the parents and male children.

    Well UtRef, that certainly is the way it looks, isn't it? If that isn't exactly what it is, why does it LOOK so much like exactly what Norm stated?

    Of course, they didn't really have any aversion to male/female pedophilia in those days, did they?

  • CordeDeVelour
    CordeDeVelour

    But...how did they find out the girls were virgins, hm?

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    Six and Norm:

    Thanks for your replies. I appreciate the feedback. Depending on the mindset of the reader, the reader's background and experiences, personal faith-if any, and the reader's dispositons or pre-dispositions in this sensitive area, almost any interpretation could be voluntarily READ into the account.

    Is that the result we are looking for? I hope not. I despise and hate pedophiliacs and my conscience does allow me to seek revenge if I were the victim. However, we are discussing the account in Numbers 31. While religion is a hot bed of hypocrisy, pedophilia, dual personalities, politics, corruption and just plain evil, the context of the account is about the occupation of foreign territories in Canaan, not an account leading up to the final "pot of gold", 32,000 young pubescent virgins for spoil.

    The disposition of the virgins in chapter 32 (please read) discloses how the virgins were in fact distributed evenly, in the same manner as the other captured materials and livestock.

    Now, does the account mention the violation and copulation with livestock? You know the answer.

    While I am no fan of organized religion any longer, I am still a fan of justice. The bible may contain errors and superstitions and other problems, but when reading what is written on those pages, there is no profit in impugning meanings, unless you have concrete evidence to support it, other than the way something "looks". Sorry, I am forced to continue disagreeing.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    That slave girls in patriarchal/Israelite society were sexual partners for their male owners almost goes without saying. I can't remember any specific scriptures about it, but based on accounts of men like Abraham and Jacob, it becomes pretty obvious. Jacob, for example, had his two wives Leah and Rachel. These women gave their own slave girls to Jacob as sexual partners -- concubines -- and of course the slave girls had no say in the matter. Provisions for this sort of thing were made in the Mosaic Law. If a wife could give her slave girl to her husband for sexual and child bearing purposes, then it stands to reason that if a man owned a slave girl, he had the right to do with her as he pleased sexually. She would be his concubine. Based on these things, I think that Norm's conclusions are valid.

    AlanF

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    Hey Alan!

    I agree with you about Rachel and Leah, however, at what age did their slave girls begin serving in that manner? I also agree that concubines were at the whim of their owners, but again at what age?
    I do not dipsute the apparent harem of women one could acquire in those days, I am just questioning the allegation that the young women in question were pubescent or pre-pubescent.

    I need more information before I make a solid conclusion. There is still plenty of room to doubt Norm's allegations.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit