Gary1914, greetings and welcome. I'm surprise that one of the elders didn't take you aside and tell you what plans the elders had for you. Is there any comradery among you or is there a click? It's apparent that these elders talked it among themselves before calling you to a meeting. This is CHEAP!
Do these elders have kids, if so, do they set a good example?
Golf
It Seems That My Children Are Not Trained
by Gary1914 128 Replies latest jw friends
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Golf
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Special K
The issue you are facing is exactly the last straw that broke the camels back in my case.
My kids were 14 months and 2 1/2.. and they were expected to keep quiet and not fidget too.
I spent so much time in the bathroom with them that it was just unbelievable.
just sit in there with them and try to keep things quieter.
It was just so frustrating to spend all my time in a stinking bathroom.
..
There was one elder and wife who had a perfect little boy. His elder dad took him to the bathroom several times each hour and you could hear the slapping and whacking. Complete fear in that childs eyes. It used to send tremors up my spine everytime I saw him taking him out.
That was enough for me , because I wasn't going to slap my kids silly.
I started staying home from meetings..and stopped going all together very soon after that.
My husband and I hired a baby sitter and we attended the memorial that year. Very late night memorial.. Well, that went over like a lead balloon with the elders. Got counselled for that, too. ..
Haven't been back since...
Special K
p.s. Sounds like you might decide to step down completely from the elders position and sit in the bathroom with your kids more or else that is where your wife will wind up.. in the bathroom, frustrated with 3 kids.
Oh, and I remember one elder and his wife who used to ply their kids with candy for two hours straight..kept them quiet somewhat but man were they wired from all the sugar.They did move to the very back row for quite awhile.. Used to take the kids out for walks around the parking lot too, during the meetings. I didn't see anything wrong with that..sheesh you just can't expect kids to sit for 2 hours straight. That's hard enough to do for adults.
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AuntieJane
Well, Gary, as others have said, only you can make the decision. But listen to these people; and think about why you are posting on this board. Your heart tells you this is wrong. Now that you have growing children, you must put THEM first; they are your Family, your wife, you and your children. As the Bible teaches, when we marry we leave our mothers and cleave to our spouse. It is time for you to set the example for your wife and your children and to let the rest of the family make their decisions. You may be pleasantly surprised.
Praying for you,
AuntieJ
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LDH
While I hate to say it, you could also use the excuse of mental distress.....with your wife crying and all, clearly she is depressed!!!!! <<wink wink>>
To hell with the rest of your family in the truth, you have children. I don't say this callously, but out of personal experience.Think about it.
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Aude_Sapere
Yes, there are other small children in the Kingdom Hall. But I am the only elder who has young children. I am supposed to be the example that the publishers with children follow. I don't want to be an example, but there it is.
Control.
I used to bring coloring books and crayons to the Hall for the kids and that kept them quiet. But the PO said this was no good because the kids should be "clutching" (his word) their Bibles and starring at the speaker.
Control.
I did try to sit in the Back Room with them for a while and was told that elders should be a part of the audiences so that the brothers could see them and be encouraged.
Control.
I sometimes wish I had the courage to just get up and leave. Especially since I no longer believe the majority of stuff they teach. However, I have too much family tied up in the organization and I just cannot extricate myself from the witnesses now.
Cult.
I did try to sit in the Back Room with them for a while and was told that elders should be a part of the audiences so that the brothers could see them and be encouraged.
Back to this comment after I read it for the third time... Is your responsiblity to be encouraging to the 'brothers' in the audience or to your children.?? Who exactly is the object of your primary responsibility.
As the adult daughter of a former elder and PO, I can't begin tell you the effect that my father's organizational responsibility had on his children. The need to control every aspect of his family's lives eventually took it's toll. His marriage ended very messily after 35 years. One child refuses contact with him. One child ended up in a mental hospital. Two are on antidepressants. One is terrified of being too harsh on his own kids so he delegates ALL discipline to his wife - who is also burdened with many other responsibilites. (Four of the five are out of the organization = terrible odds.)
We were humiliated in public (both at the KH, and away - at home, in the front yard and in other people's houses). Once you start on a pattern of controlling every nuance of your child, you will need to be consistant. Your wide-eyed and fun-loving children will learn to sneak around. You will be forcing them to lead double lives so as not to bring reproach on your position. If they don't sneak around, they will be in need of mental health treatment.
I would much rather my children be comfortable in being themselves around me and knowing that I love and respect them for the unique and curious people that they are. This allows me to be able to guide their natural inclinations in the manner that is best for each of them as individuals rather than try to force them to be dull automatrons who eventually become who they forced to be due to excessive and inappropriate pressure to conform.
Were you also raised in the organization?
-Aude.
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Gary1914
Hi Aude, yes I was raised in the truth. I have 5 sisters and brothers and we were like little soldiers at the meeting because our parents beat us. I don't mean a spanking we were really beaten if we dared to act up in the Kingdom Hall. There was no sparing the rod in our house.
To this day I can pretend to pay close attention at the meetings, while all the time my mind is wandering and I am thinking of other things. It's a trick I learned from infancy. My siblings are the same.
In fact, one of my sisters says that in all the years she was growing up in the truth she never really knew what they were talking about. Because although she went to all the meetings and in field service, she didn't really know what they taught because she never really listened. It was only when she married a brother that she thought she ought to find out what JW's were all about. Before that she only knew that they talked a lot about Israelites. She was baptized when she was 14 and she is now 27 years old.
I refuse to hit my children. I jut won't do it and my wife agrees. We talk to the kids, try to reason with them, but we absolutely will not hit them.
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Scully
*** Rbi8 Matthew 18:1-6 ***
In that hour the disciples came near to Jesus and said: "Who really is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens?" 2 So, calling a young child to him, he set it in their midst 3 and said: "Truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU turn around and become as young children, YOU will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens. 4 Therefore, whoever will humble himself like this young child is the one that is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens; 5 and whoever receives one such young child on the basis of my name receives me [also]. 6 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who put faith in me, it is more beneficial for him to have hung around his neck a millstone such as is turned by an ass and to be sunk in the wide, open sea.
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Rbi8 Mark 9:33-37 ***And they came into Ca·per´na·um. Now when he was inside the house he put the question to them: "What were YOU arguing over on the road?" 34
They kept silent, for on the road they had argued among themselves who is greater. 35 So he sat down and called the twelve and said to them: "If anyone wants to be first, he must be last of all and minister of all." 36 And he took a young child, stood it in their midst and put his arms around it and said to them: 37 "Whoever receives one of such young children on the basis of my name, receives me; and whoever receives me, receives, not me only, but also him that sent me forth.
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Rbi8 Luke 9:46-48 ***Then a reasoning entered among them as to who would be the greatest of them. 47 Jesus, knowing the reasoning of their hearts, took a young child, set it beside him 48 and said to them: "Whoever receives this young child on the basis of my name receives me [too], and whoever receives me receives him [also] that sent me forth. For he that conducts himself as a lesser one among all of YOU is the one that is great.
Just keep in mind what Jesus said about children. The elders are not acting in a way that exemplifies that they are "shepherds" in the congregation.
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love11
That takes some nerve! Tell them that they are your children that you are very proud of and they are not acting like Jesus if they don't love the little children and their energy. Shame on them!
As I side note- I remember going to a convention where the District Overseer actually stopped his talk and told the woman to go take the child back to the bathroom. I thought that was so rude and ignorant.
However, I went to a Catholic church recently, a child started to yell and the priest just said, "Isn't it wonderful that the children come to church to sing to the lord." Everyone laughed afterwards and it made me feel warm towards the priest.
Even though no one is perfect.......know them by their fruits!
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Enigma One
Gary, first and foremost THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOUR CHILDREN. Ok...did you hear me? This is one of the control leverage points they have over you. If your kids were perfect and mute 24/7, then they would find something else. Dirty car. Bad haircut. Not enough field service. Whatever.
This is part of the insanity game they play. No matter how hard you work. How much you go to meetings, or service, or "reach out for priveleges" (ugh, I think I threw up a little in my mouth just typing that tripe) isn't the point. They will ALWAY....repeat ALWAYS find something to make you feel unworthy. To feel guilty. To feel undeserving of God's love. This is how they control you. They beat you down!
I was counseled for so many STUPID things. Never about spirituality. Always about going out in field service with the same people a lot, sitting in the same area of the KH all the time, buying too "sporty" of a car, needing to wear a suit for my #4 talk, not a sports coat. On and on and on. The JW's openly mock the Pharasis of Jesus day, yet are the most inane, micro-managed group anywhere.
Do yourself a favor and step down as an elder TODAY. -
Jez
They complain that children are noisy at meetings, but do nothing to offer them a place of their own. KHs are not kid friendly. Many churches have separate programs for children. The teens in the church take turns either babysitting, or teaching a preschool program of fun 'Christian' activities, AGE APPROPRIATE. I was shocked to see how important children are in the local churches in my community and how they are welcomed, doted on, and taught appropriately. Jesus said to let the children come to him, whereas others wanted them to just 'shutup' and 'go away'.
I am sorry that you and your wife were blamed for having perfectly normal children. Here we go with them saying, "It's YOU, YOU, YOU" It is never their fault. Jez