Is disfellowshipping bad?

by Simon 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Simon
    Simon

    It seems that some people are keen to use disfellowshipping as the measure of anything bad. If someone is deleted from a forum for being obnoxious then that is akin to being disfellowshipped and is B-A-D. yada yada yada.

    Is it?

    Is every disfellowshipping "bad" simply by virtue of being a disfellowshipping?

    Haven't people made quite a fuss (and rightly so) over the fact that the WTS has NOT kicked people out that *we* think that they should? Hey, sometimes, some disfellowshippings are DAMN justified and a DAMN good thing. People have campaigned long and hard because the WTS have not d'fd people when they should have been!

    What is wrong with the WTS d'f policy is when they use disfellowshipping to wield power and then abuse that power by breaking up families and hurting people who have not done anything wrong or broken any rules.

    Really, the whole "you deleted 'xyz' and that is like the WTS disfellowshipping people" is a bit tired and frankly sickening. It is an "obvious" (in a simplistic way) but very ill-thought-through analogy that doesn't work on two counts:

    Sometimes, people SHOULD be disfellowshipped because of their behaviour - that is something that we have argued long and hard for isn't it?. There are some rules that shouldn't be broken without consequences and that should result in expulsion if they are. The rules are well known, and well accepted by decent society in general.

    Deleting someone from a forum is nothing like disfellowshipping. It does not approach the hurt caused by d'fing and doesn't prevent families, relatives and friends from communicating or having contact with anyone. It is an INSULT to people who have genuinely suffered hurt because of the WTS d'fing policy to equate their loss to some pratt not being allowed to post on one single internet site out of millions simply because of their own stubborn refusal to adhere to simple rules and polite requests.

    So no, disfellowshipping is not always bad IMO. I'm sure some will see everything in black and white terms and disagree though.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    The principle of disfellowshipping or dismissing a person who deliberately and repeatedly breaks the rules of a church or any other group, is not wrong.

    The scriptures hold out this sanction [ 1 Cor. 5 ,11 - 13] But the argument with the WTS is that it is taken to extreme lengths . The wrongdoer is not just cast out of the church, he mut be shunned by his family and all associates . Everybody suffers. Also, it is practised for things that the Bible does not specifically condemn, smoking, blood transfusions, celebrating Christmas, disagreeing over teachings etc etc.

    There is absolutely no correlation between disfellowshipping and being deleted from this board. The terms of posting appear every time that you make a post . If you break the rules, then your membership may be terminated - nobody asks your family to shun you.

    It is essential that some order is maintained, for the good of the rest of us. You have only to visit a message board that caters for , eg. football fans to see the level to which they can sink, if a board is not effectively moderated.

  • googlemagoogle
    googlemagoogle

    doesn't excommunication actually only apply to not being allowed to parttake at the communion? ie... not being able to take from the "symbols"?

    all but a few JWs are excommunicated and don't know about it.

  • imfreeimfree
    imfreeimfree


    Thank you Simon for keeping the finger on the pulse.

    It is your board, your property, you set the rules and we must abide by them.

    Anyone who is not happy with the guidelines is at liberty to start their own site. True, “Deleting someone from a forum is nothing like Disfellowshipping”. No one will be shunned or lose family or friends because of removal from the board.

    Thank you Simon and all Forum Assistants.

    David

  • Golf
    Golf

    In pro golf, you play by the rules or else! Recently two pro's were disqualified for not adhering to the rules, one was Michelle Lee the up and coming female golfer.


    Golf

  • vitty
    vitty

    Ive never though disfellowshiping was wrong, everywhere in life we have rules to follow, but the WTs policy of shunning is the most terrible thing. How can anyone compare that to a message board?

    Even if its the best thing that I happened to come across and I owe my freedom to it !!

  • damselfly
    damselfly

    It's not the disfellowshipping that's wrong, it's the inforced shunning that is.

    I really don't care that I was kicked out of the organization, it's being kicked out of my family.

    Dams

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Hmmm, whilst I generally agree with the comments about persistent rule-breaking, there is another issue that hasn't yet been addressed.

    In the case of someone who is recovering from cult expulsion there are emotional issues that raise the stakes. Being debarred from communication, with those who an individual thought of as a support network in the absence of former family and friends, can have psychological consequences. For some this goes beyond mere frustration, and reinforces morbid feelings of rejection.

    This would be the basis of my reservation against using permanent deletion in any but the most extreme of cases. I completely acknowledge that in some cases it is entirely justified (e.g. in cases with legal ramifications).

    Just my 2p, since the subject has been raised for open debate

  • Lilycurly
    Lilycurly

    Speaking of this...I'd really like to know how to answer when the elder will call again. My DA is pending, because he wanted to answer some of my questions...but I'm sure he will come back to it. What he said, was that they shunned the DAd and DFd because they followed that Bible rule. What do you answer to that? The problem is, and I told him that (amongst many other revolted blurt-outs), that I had no morally wrong behavior....the only thing I did was to refuse to follow their crazy rules (did not say crazy...of course). Do they really follow a Bible principle when things are like that?

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    The principle ideas behind disfellowshipping are not out of line.

    Keeping a religious organization 'clean' morally is not out of harmony with the indicates of a relgious group I think.

    It is, and has always been for me, the way it destroys families. The shunning is the crime committed here, IMHO.

    As far as comparing it to the running of a discussion board, I see no match here. I would agree with LT, that in the case of those who have been rejected and traumatized by the hatred of a religious body, and had come here for support, such a deletion might be interpreted as the same thing all over again. Obviously it is not the same thing though.

    I would only wish that only the completely unreformable and objectionable ones would be so treated, since you asked opinions. How about just 'time outs', then longer 'time outs' or reduced posting privialges somehow. Obviously legal issues are a different matter, as mentioned.

    Simon, I have note ever been mistreated, and appreciate your work and board.

    Jeff

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit