The EVERLASTING Lie

by thinker 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    "Every word has one meaning regardless of the context" is a wrong premise: this should be written in bold letters on interlinears.

    Btw, if "eternal/everlasting" in the Bible doesn't mean "eternal," how can this help in making a difference between "heaven" and "earth"? Why would "eternal/everlasting life" in heaven mean anything more than "to an age"?

    AuldSoul:

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/adapa.htm

    And from Gilgamesh Epic table XI:

    Utanapishtim spoke to Gilgamesh, saying:
    "Gilgamesh, you came here exhausted and worn out.
    What can I give you so you can return to your land?
    I will disclose to you a thing that is hidden, Gilgamesh,
    a... I will tell you.
    There is a plant... like a boxthorn,
    whose thorns will prick your hand like a rose.
    If your hands reach that plant you will become a young
    man again.
    "
    Hearing this, Gilgamesh opened a conduit(!) (to the Apsu)
    and attached heavy stones to his feet.
    They dragged him down, to the Apsu they pulled him.
    He took the plant, though it pricked his hand,
    and cut the heavy stones from his feet,
    letting the waves(?) throw him onto its shores.
    Gilgamesh spoke to Urshanabi, the ferryman, saying:
    "Urshanabi, this plant is a plant against decay(!)
    by which a man can attain his survival
    (!).
    I will bring it to Uruk-Haven,
    and have an old man eat the plant to test it.
    The plant's name is 'The Old Man Becomes a Young Man.'"
    Then I will eat it and return to the condition of my youth."

    At twenty leagues they broke for some food,
    at thirty leagues they stopped for the night.
    Seeing a spring and how cool its waters were,
    Gilgamesh went down and was bathing in the water.
    A snake smelled the fragrance of the plant,
    silently came up and carried off the plant.
    While going back it sloughed off its casing.'
    At that point Gilgamesh sat down, weeping,
    his tears streaming over the side of his nose.

  • defd
    defd

    Jehovah promises everlasting life in an earthly paradise. That was the start he gave man and that is the outcome that is recorded in Revelations for man. I for one will not OVER think it. It is actually quit simple to understand and see. After all wouldnt ANY loving parent give the children they love the very best surroundings to live in, with absolutely no worries such as how will I pay my rent, where will my next meal come from........................................................................ Jehovah wants those things for us and much much more. He has the power to do it and said He would and I am going to take His word for it.

    Joshua 23:14Now, look! I am going today in the way of all the earth, and YOU well know with all YOUR hearts and with all YOUR souls that not one word out of all the good words that Jehovah YOUR God has spoken to YOU has failed. They have all come true for YOU . Not one word of them has failed."

    Isaiah 55:11"so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it".

    D.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    I for one will not OVER think it.

    I for one trust you on that.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    I for one will not OVER think it.



    OF this much I am sure!

    Jeff

    { Edited to add - sorry Nark your post was not up yet when I made my comment. Great minds.... and all that rubbish? }

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    My question is and always has been: Where in the Greek Scriptures do the apostles or Jesus talk about living forever on a paradise earth.

    I know Jesus said you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43) (paradeisos #3857) which means according to Strong's:

    1. among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
    2. a garden, pleasure ground
      1. grove, park
    3. the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
    4. the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
    5. heaven
    6. Also 2 Cor.12:4 says : "I have to boast. It is not beneficial; but I shall pass on to supernatural visions and revelations of [the] Lord. 2 I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows—was caught away as such to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows— 4 that he was caught away into paradise and heard unutterable words which it is not lawful for a man to speak. "

      The only other place the word paradeisos is used in the NT is at Revelation 2:7 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’ "

      None of these references show an earthly paradise. Why didn't Jesus and the 1st century inspired writers reiterate Jehovah's promise of living forever on a paradise earth, I mean come on this is a super important point. You'd think it would have been a staple of their talk and writings.

  • defd
    defd

    They did and you mentioned some. The Idea of Going to Heaven was new to them. They had the hope of living on earth under the rule of the messiah. That is shown in the book of acts for one.

    Acts 1:6 "When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" Even after those yrs of Jesus teaching them about the Kingdom and being in it with him to serve as kings and preist they still were a bit confused. Why? Because the Idea was NEW to them.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    May I interject a side-question?

    Do any other 'Christian' religions teach the idea of earthly paradise and eternal life thereon? And how do they defend it?

    My experience tells me that most actual Bible scholars do not teach this - am I right? Since we know that Jw's do not really have any actual Biblical scholars, perhaps they have just made it up to create 'classes' of people. This gives the elite GB someone over whom to lord.

    Jeff

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    Defd, I didn't mention some, I mentioned all. There are only 3 uses of Paradeisos in the NT.

    For all the years I adamantly preached a paradise earth I never realized the NT was so scant with information. I used Luke 23:43 and then went to the OT.

  • gumby
    gumby
    I for one will not OVER think it.
    I for one trust you on that.

    Aaaaaaaalmost spit my coffee on my monitor. Lmao ! Gumtree

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Yuk, very gumbatious!

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