The Cross and Crown

TD

As everyone probably knows, the original Zion's Watch Tower featured the cross and crown emblem on the front cover. This emblem appeared on the Watch Tower for approximately the first forty years of its existence and Bible Students today still use this symbol.

I've noticed that there are a lot of poorly researched websites out there claiming that this emblem proves any (or all) of the following things:

C.T. Russel was a mason

The occult roots of the JW's

The JW organizatin is run by illuminati, knights templar, space aliens, etc.

XJW's, who as a group seem to have very little experience with mainstream religions often gobble this tripe up. Links to websites that make these claims appear here fairly regularly.

I'd like to show with a series of links to church artwork that the cross and crown is not unique to the Bible Students/JWs. It is used by pretty much every major religions denomination out there.

Catholic

http://www.daughtersofisabella.org/main.asp

http://www.delawarestmary.org/virtual-tour/stained-glass-medallions

http://www.slkschool.com/aboutSLK.php

Methodist

http://www.chappellhillumc.org/newpages/windows.html

http://www.austinavenueumc.org/page.aspx?id=101698

https://www.oceangrovechurch.com/pages/windows

http://www.fumcbelton.org/cushions.htm

Evangelical

http://faithrefugechurch.com/

Episcopal

http://www.allsaintstupelo.com/allsaintsnews.html

Lutheran

http://www.churchsigns.com/images/images_jpg/cross%20and%20crown%203.jpg

http://www.cbllutheran.org/id25.html

Presbyterian

http://www.stjohnssf.org/architecture.html

http://www.fpcaustin-history.org/opportunities/historical_society/chrismon.html

Baptist

http://www.crossandcrownbaptist.com/

http://www.fairwindsbaptist.com/Ministries/Outreach.htm

http://www.levybaptist.com/tour.htm

http://firstbaptistchurchwinona.org/4.html

Christian Science

http://christianscience.rolf-witzsche.com/metaphor-2.html

http://christianscience.com/

http://www.cschurchlongwood.com/

https://m1.buysub.com/webapp/wcs/stores/content/TFCCS/images/SE_SH_wireo_lg.jpg

Church of Christ

http://www.stjohns-mansfield.org/stained_glass.htm

Non-Denominational

http://elkhartchristianchurch.org/

http://www.crivoice.org/symbols/ornaments.html

Those that claim that the presence of this symbol on early Watch Towers proves something sinister don't seem to be terribly informed or terribly honest. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of the JW faith. Nobody needs to make things up.

cameo-d

Sorry, TD, but it is YOU who is misinformed.

This symbol, even though used by other religions, shows that they are all linked to these secret societies.

Religions are an illuminati downline.

And when I use the word Illuminati it is an irony because it refers to darkness in this context.

The true meaning of Cross and Crown is much much deeper than a few logo's you have found.

You might want to take a look at the Templar Church. That's a start.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/178310/1/WT-Lawyers-The-Crown-Temple

bohm

TD: Thanks for the research. i allways hated all that OMGJWISTEHCONSPIRACY stuff. its not. their problem is that their message is wrong and they are teaching it in an unethical way. thats the problem and this is only distracting the discussion. Another thing i would like to see put in the grave is the stuff about hidden images...

AnnOMaly

Religions are an illuminati downline.

How?

wha happened?

The conspiracy crap is what originally turned me off. Some of it was so over the top that I was convinced that ex JW's were the devil

Narkissos

What I find most interesting is how occult conspiracy theories adapt to everyone's ideology, no matter what it is, reconstructing the purported consistency of the "dark side" as everything which opposes their particular stance (much like "Satan" is always related to your enemies in the Christian tradition). From cameo-d's standpoint all religions are "in," but I have seen the same stuff (and often the same references) used by Protestants/Evangelicals who would highlight a(n alleged) Catholic connection, and by Catholics who highlight a Protestant connection, both including humanist/secular movements and political agencies in the "conspiracy". Your world has to be consistent from your perspective, and the variable geometry of conspirationism feels this need quite remarkably.

PSacramento

I was brought up in the "order of christ", a templat off-shoot in Portugal.

My Uncle was/is a head cheese in it and I was exposed to it as a teenager.

"Secret organizations" ( They aren't really secret is we knwo about them, lol) saw the usefullness of using the church, of that there isn't much doubt, but to say that the use of symbols orginated form them, is a tad of a stretch.

Marvin Shilmer

TD,

As always, you demonstrate very high standards of research and presentation of information. Thanks.

Unfortunately, we can lead a horse to water, but ...

Marvin Shilmer

TD

Cameo,

Let's assume for the sake of cordial discussion that the Crown Temple does exist in a sovereign region of London, that they to a large degree control the world's monetary and legal systems and that they use the cross and crown emblem.

What does this have to do with the little old Episcopal lady who embroiders a cross and crown emblem in needlepoint on a kneeling cushion in the confessional of her local church? What is the causation for this action? IOW Did she use the emblem because of a conscious allegience to the Crown Temple or did she use it simply because it is a common Christian symbol?

I enjoy a good conspiracy theory, but simply assuming causation is a compositional fallacy on the order of, "A dog has four paws. A cat has four paws. Therefore a cat is a dog."

If we allow that that the rank and file are largely ignorant of the true significance of this emblem, how far up the chain of authority must we go in any given church before we find someone who is aware of it? The problem here is there just isn't much of a chain of authority to work with. Unlike the JW's and Mormons, most Protestant denominations are loosely organized with little in the way of hierarchical structure. If a congregation becomes unhappy enough with a Pastor, he's gone. If a congregation becomes unhappy with their denomination's parent organization, they're free to realign themselves.

For example, Lutheran churches in America are currently in an uproar over the ELCA's recent vote to accept actively gay ministers. A number of Lutheran churches are therefore severing their ties to the ELCA as a parent organization and either joining the Wisconsin Synod, (WELS) the Missouri Synod (LCMS) or becomming independant altogether. Episcopal churches went through a similar upheaval. The decision to divorce the parent organization happened democratically on a church by church basis.

Where is the mechanism of control? Trying to control thousands of democratically run churches would be like trying to herd cats. Isn't it more plausible that the Crown Temple, if it does exist borrowed this symbol from Chritianity and not the other way around?

ninja

td......how much have you researched freemasonry?

The Cross and Crown

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