I had some thoughts running through my head the other day and I was thinking that instead of just asking them we could do something good for everyone. Lady Lee agreed to answer some questions for me?kind of like an interview of sorts. I hope it benefits and gives a different perspective on a subject near and dear to us. Enjoy!
Valis:
When did you decide to help abuse victims?
Lady Lee: first wanted to help victims when I was 13 before I became a JW and then had to quit school and be a good dub
After I left the JWs I went to college to work with the disabled but half way through my first semester realized I wanted to follow my old dream and go work with survivors of abuse. As a child I had wanted to work with other kids. After I left I was going through my own therapy and knew how few people were out there doing this work. In fact it took me 10 years to find the one person in Montreal who was doing any work in the field of abuse.
Since I was so clear about what I wanted to do after I graduated my profs gave me the freedom to specialize my courses. Therefore all my research and papers were done on various aspects of abuse.
In my third year we had to do an internship and I and a Social Work student from McGill University applied to the Women?s Centre of Montreal to bring in a pilot project and set up an information and referral service about incest to their clientele. It was the first such service in Montreal other than the Sexual Assault Centre. In the year we worked at the Centre we provided information and referrals, group and individual counseling to over 600 women.
Also during that year I founded a non-profit organization to provide these services in Montreal to all incest survivors. Before I graduated at the end of the year the organization was established as a non-profit organization and I had our papers in hand at my last class. The Centre for Incest Healing operated for 7 years before we closed the doors.
Valis: Do you remember your first encounter trying to help a victim of sexual abuse?
Lady Lee: My very first encounter trying to help another victim was probably while I was a JW. She was a deeply troubled younger sister of one of the sisters in the congregation. Most people ignored her because of her mental health problems. I guessed the source of her problems and tried to help but shortly after she moved and I heard she wound up in the hospital ? long-term.
But that didn?t put me off this desire to help others.
During my internship my first client (without breaking confidentiality) was a young woman who sat in my office clutching her sides totally unable to speak. She just sat there rocking herself. My heart went out to this young woman that had already seen several therapists and no one knew how to help. Her referral said she was an incest victim so very calmly and quietly I began to talk to her, telling her my story. Just enough for her to know I understood and would listen and believe her. Slowly she learned to talk to me and that I would indeed listen and be supportive. It was an awesome lesson in the strength of the human mind and spirit to watch this young woman grow and begin to empower herself.
Valis:
You say that it took you some 10 years to find someone in your area who was focusing on abuse. Can you comment on the evolution of the issue in general, and how your own approach has changed over time?
Lady Lee: When I started my own recovery in the mid 80?s I borrowed 5 books from my counselor. Those were all the books about incest that she had at the time. Since the late 70?s and early eighties there has been an explosion of research and treatment options for survivors. Colleges and universities now have entire programs dedicated to training professionals to deal with these abuse issues. When I started working in the field there weren?t a lot of academic books about treatment options. While I started collecting books (I now have over 700 books about abuse and its aftereffects and treatment) in the mid to late 80?s very often we were working instinctively. Without the guidance from other professionals we were often doing what we found helpful.
One aspect of the training I received was to ?be with the client?. To me that meant I respected where she was in her process and worked with that instead of pushing my ideas on her. It worked well. As more research was done and books published we were usually surprised to find the ?experts? were agreeing with our approach.
I still find this open approach works best with people. They are different, as are their experiences. There is no ?one treatment fits all?. Each treatment program needs to be tailored to the individual and adapted constantly to meet their needs. I still read the new books that are published, taking what is useful ? and there is a lot of wonderful information out there for professionals.
Valis: You also mentioned getting your first client to trust you. Do you find there are stages to this trust? And could you maybe lay some of them out for us?
Lady Lee: I hate when professionals expect trust from those least able to give it. Trust needs to be earned. With the person I mentioned earlier I knew there was no way she could open up if she didn?t get something from me first. And that seems to be the case with many people.
Some people come into an office and just spill their whole story. I was one of these. It was a test to see if the therapist could handle it ? done for the shock value. My therapist sat and cried for me. That was very healing. It validated how bad this was and I really needed that validation.
Some people need to test the waters slowly giving out a bit of information at a time to see how it is handled. And of course at different times people may use all of the above.
Other people, knowing what my specialty was, would come in and talk about everything but the abuse. That gave me a lot of information too about their need to feel safe. Some took a couple of sessions to begin to open up about the issue and others took longer. Respecting the person?s need to go at his or her own pace was always crucial. Very often the other issues they brought in were important to help them establish a base to do the recovery work.
What I learned was to watch carefully, not only what was said but also the facial expressions and the body language. Most of the time I have been right on how to proceed and slowly help the person open up and share what was needed.
From my experience with different counselors I knew when not to trust someone. Those sessions rarely lasted very long. Pushing for trust never works. Neither does letting them ignore the real issues. Sometimes I would remind them that when they felt ready we would get to it. Usually they would get to the real work within a couple of more sessions
Valis: I know from experience you take offense at the "just get over it, it wasn't that bad" theory. Can you tell us why, besides your past experience, this is not a good approach? Has it ever been in your experience that this does happen?
Lady Lee: Almost every person I have ever worked with has had at least one person tell them this. Very often the person themselves does this especially if they have been in a support group or done some reading. It is very easy to minimize the trauma and say it wasn?t that bad. The problem though is that even if a person does manage to put the abuse out of their mind for a while the aftereffects are bound to cause havoc with their lives. People use a wide range of techniques and behaviors to avoid memories of abuse. They may resort to various addictions or numbing behaviors. Many survivors get involved in adult abusive relationships repeating the cycle of abuse. Some perpetuate the abuse on their own children. And some wind up with a wide range of health problems in their effort to push down the effects of the abuse.
Basically if we could forget and move on, we would. But if we don?t deal with it directly then our minds and bodies will find other ways to release the trauma forcing us to deal with the symptoms instead of the cause ? sort of like putting a Band-Aid on a broken leg and expecting the person to walk normally.
Valis: Do your past clients maintain a relationship with you or do they make a fresh start of it?
Lady Lee: Before I moved many of my clients maintain contact, always with the option of returning to therapy if they needed it. A few have opted to return to therapy with a male therapist to resolve certain issues. I have strict boundaries about post-therapy social contact. Many of my clients ask about friendship after counseling. Because boundaries are such a huge deal in adult/child abuse it is crucial that I not continue that pattern. I let them know I respect and admire them and would prefer to be available in the future as a therapist if they need it. And they all know how hard it is to find a therapist that they can work with. One person was in therapy for 17 years before she found me. And that isn?t uncommon. And then of course there are those who move on to newer things in their lives
Valis:
You mention knowing when to be able to trust someone patient to therapist. Does this cut both ways in a therapist to patient aspect as well? Can you relate any experiences you have had that were not resulting in a pleasant outcome for either the patient or the therapist?
Lady Lee: Interesting question. When I go into a session with someone I assume they will be trust-worthy. I assume they are there for the reason they say ? to get support and help. The issue is a lot different for me on the professional side of the desk. I have worked in non-profit organizations and in private practice out of my home. Especially when I have appointments in my home I had to trust they were coming for the reason they stated.
In the 16 years of working with survivors I can say there was only one person I felt very nervous about ? enough so that I discontinued working with them. I later found out this person was arrested for assaulting their therapist. Needless to say I was glad I listened to my feelings about working with that person. The only other people I have had some degree of problem working with are people who use their anger to protect themselves. I have always found it very difficult to get under the anger and onto other issues. That has only happened to me one or two times though. Usually we can work through the anger and onto the underlying issues
And no ? I don?t think any therapist should be able to work with anyone. Personalities differ and the emotional fit has to be right between client and therapist. People need to shop around.
Valis: If so, why did it happen and what are some warning signs for everyone involved?
Lady Lee: I think both sides need to be aware of their feelings. That can be hard for a person who has always been used to ignoring their feelings. And certainly stepping into a therapist?s office can feel like a very unsafe thing to do. Finding that balance between the fear of starting on the road to recovery and the fear of exposing oneself is a challenge. I suggest that people go slowly when unsure of themselves. Even talk about it with the therapist. Personally if the therapist gets offended that you don?t trust them then I think they aren?t the person to work with. The therapist needs to acknowledge the safety issues and make some allowances that it will take time to earn the trust.
Valis: You also mention the possible effects of bad therapy or neglecting to get therapy at all. One doesn't here from you though much about the effect the therapist's work has on you as a person. Can you share a little of that with us?
Lady Lee: For the most part I love what I do. I rejoice at all the little steps a person makes towards emotional health. I try to discourage people from expecting immediate results. You just can?t undo years of damage in a short time. So we rejoice in the little things. I am pretty open about displaying my feelings. People know when I am hiding them. So there is no point in hiding it. That?s not to say I am falling apart when I hear their stories. Sometimes they are very painful and take a lot out of me. But I have several techniques to care for myself which is really important to do when working with trauma survivors.
I cry with people, we laugh about the insanity of it all (when appropriate), we work together to overcome obstacles and we celebrate. It really becomes teamwork. I don?t feel like I am a receptacle for their pain and they feel like they are actually doing the work ? (they are ? I?m just a guide).
Sometimes when I haven?t taken care of myself properly I will dream about their stories. But it doesn?t trigger my issues. I think continued self care helps that a lot. Some of my self-care involves visualizations and relaxation techniques. Sometimes it involves talking to another professional (confidentiality protected). Sometimes it is a walk in the park or connecting with nature in some way. What is always important is to find a way to take care of me.
Valis:
So we'll jump to now for a moment. You said there was a wealth of information for therapists now. Which leads me to ask you about the Internet. How has it changed the traditional role of therapy for you?
Lady Lee: Well I think people are better informed now than they ever were before. People who may be too shy to go to a book store or library can look up information on the Internet. And I think for the most part that is a good thing. People still need to be careful about the information they get and from whom as is the case with all information found on the Net.
I?ve used my library to help my clients. I encourage them to read and learn everything they can. I certainly don?t have all the answers. People can and should feel free to get help anywhere they can. So in that way it hasn?t really changed how I work with people.
I have had my website up for about 6 years now. I often get questions from people and am glad if what I share helps people reach out to get the help for themselves or others that they need.
Valis: You also mentioned that body language is important for you to intuit what it is the client is feeling or thinking. How do you overcome that challenge when you run across people here or at other sites you frequent?
Lady Lee: Well yes that certainly presents a difficulty. But providing information on the Internet is very different than doing therapy with someone. And while the information I provide might be considered therapeutic it isn?t meant to be therapy. People really need the one-on-one counseling.
I do make an exception for this though. Some people live in small communities where everyone knows everyone. Since trust and confidentiality are so important some people may not feel it would be beneficial to go to the only counselor in town ? Aunt Jane.
The other situation applies to people who live in remote areas where there are no counselors. Then I think getting counseling on line or over the phone would be preferable to not doing it at all.
One thing I do discourage is people seeing two therapists at the same time. (working face-to-face and working with a therapist online)
Valis: Do you think people benefit from a mixed form of therapy, say using dbs to vent and seeking the traditional forms, versus the traditional only?
Lady Lee: My personal opinion is that recovery is not limited to the hour that a person spends in a therapist?s office. It is a whole life change ? ways of thinking and ways of behaving as well as learning to deal with feelings. I think if it works for a person then fabulous.
I have only one word of caution about this. Sometimes people are so busy gathering information and telling their stories that they aren?t really processing what happened. There is a very important difference. When a person goes through what happened to process it they begin to make sense of it. How did certain aspects of what happened affect me? What other factors were going on that affected me? What did I think and feel at the time and how did that affect me? How does it all affect me today? What do I need to change? Unless these things are answered the person can be on this endless cycle of disclosure without any real healing.
Valis: Could a preference be attributed to generational differences or other factors that you have noticed?
Lady Lee: I am going to assume you mean a preference for the kind of resource a person uses (Internet vs. other). I have had people of all ages contact me both in my office and on the Internet There really doesn?t seem to be any difference that I have noticed about ages or other factors regarding Internet usage. I?ve had preteens call the centre when we were open and 70 yr old women and the same for the Internet. People who hurt and are looking for help will find it anywhere they can.
Valis: What are some future roles you might see the Internet playing in the world of therapy for the abused?
Lady Lee: Other than the situations I have discussed above I really believe that since the therapy is so intense at times working face-to-face is preferable. The Internet can play a huge part in providing needed information and support but it isn?t therapy.
Valis:
You mentioned that you get your clients to read as much as they can. In your opinion how should child abuse education be brought to the child before such a traumatic event happens?
Lady Lee: Very carefully. This can be a double-edged sword. We need to give children enough information so they can protect themselves but we don?t want to make them scared of everyone. We also need to talk to them about all kinds of abuse. Many of the sexual abuse programs focus on unwanted touch. But not all sexual abuse involves touching the child. Sometimes it is the abuser who gets touched. Sometimes no one gets touched and children need to know it also included someone showing them their private parts or asking to see the child?s or getting two children to play sexual games together.
We also need to let children know that if something does happen even though they have been taught to say NO and run away it doesn?t mean they are to blame. There have been stories where children say "NO" and are ignored and then think it is their fault because they didn?t say "NO" loud enough or they didn?t run away. Just because we teach children to say NO doesn?t mean they are protected against someone who won?t listen to the words of a child.
And sadly there are some kids who will freeze and people need to know that is a normal response and to not feel guilty about that.
As parents we need to be aware of who is with our child and where our children are. And all that has to be done in a way to let the child know they are cared for and safe.
Valis: If the new figures released are correct 1 in every 3 women is abused in their lifetime, why do you think there is such a disparity between the number of people getting therapy and those not?
Well first is the fear of going out there and finding help. People are often not sure of the resources. Most phone books have a list of emergency numbers in the front. Often there is a sexual assault/rape crisis center as well as family violence programs and Child and Family Services. Some cities have 24-hr crisis lines that can be used and they often have a list of local resources.
Many people don?t realize what is available for free (although the waiting lists for free counseling can be as long a 6 ? 14 months.) And then searching for a therapist (and paying) can be a daunting experience for counselors. Therapists should be interviewed first (if they don?t agree to a first assessment interview ? run). And yes the client needs to assess the therapist too. Are you a good fit?
A lot of people are just scared to start opening this up. I know I thought that once I started talking they would lock me up as a crazy person and never let me out. Many people think that it is just too hard or too long ago. But once people realize they benefits they really do see the progress they are making.
The reality is that the governments just don?t provide enough services to help all the people who need it. We need more programs to address this very serious issue that can go on to hurt one generation after another.
Valis: Do men require specifically different therapy than females in matters of sexual abuse?
Lady Lee: I have worked with a few men. Not many. I think the work needs to be the same with perhaps a slightly different slant to some issues. Both males and females will have sexuality issues. And some of those issues will be more dependant on who the abuser was. But eventually both need to deal with sexuality, control, powerless, helplessness, emotions, behaviors, etc. It may just be a different mix of the issues.
Valis: Do you think men or women have a bigger aversion for talking about abuse/seeking therapy in general? AND do you deal with both? Why or why not?
Lady Lee: Well for the last 20 years services for women have been provided. Most of the research has been done with females. And most of the treatment programs have been geared to women. But more information is coming out about male survivors. There are a few books for men. And very few free services sadly.
Part of the problem is that men seem to find it harder to disclose histories of abuse. And once they do there are few resources or information for them. As more men demand the services the greater chance they will develop. So that leaves a lot of men having to pay for counseling.
One year when I was running the centre we were supervising a male college student who ran a support group for male victims. We had no idea how many if any people would sign up for the service. Within a week we were turning the men away. Some were in individual counseling and others were on a waiting list.
We clearly need to do more.
As I said I have worked with a few men quite successfully. And I would do it again.
Valis: Do you think education about abuse will curb instances or merely allow us to react that much quicker?
Lady Lee: Well I would like to think that if abusers know a child is educated and not vulnerable they will not be easy targets. And perhaps that is the crucial factor. When I spoke with my children about this their father was present. I wanted to make sure the girls and he knew they would not be victims in our home. To be fair to him, I included myself in those instructions. I didn?t want to single out men ? they needed to know it could be anyone and to tell and keep telling until someone listens and helps.
Hopefully, with more information and more workers out there a child can get the help they need as soon as possible. Information empowers us. If it is readily available and we choose to use it.
Valis: And finally for now dearest LL...Where do you see yourself in the future in regards helping the abused? Anything different or new to share with us?
Lady Lee: I would like to get back to the work I love. I would love to have my own centre again. I want to write a book (or two). And I might want to go back to school. So many choices. <sigh>
Thanks so much to Lady Lee for answering some questions and sharing her experience. We'll get around to some more later, but this is a good place for us to start.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer