Watchtower deliberately lying?

by AllAlongTheWatchtower 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AllAlongTheWatchtower
    AllAlongTheWatchtower

    I remember a topic a couple months ago, something about whether the GB actually believed in what they taught. Other topics have been similar lately, and today I noticed the topic about Google 'proving' that the WTS deliberately lies. But IS it deliberate? Oh sure, I'm convinced they're deliberately misleading, such as how they leave out sources of quotes and such. And I've seen folks here on the board demonstrate how the society has flip-flopped on doctrine, and they strongly discourage researching old literature to prevent people from discovering the changes. All of which can be said is lying, to a degree.

    But I want to cut straight to the chase. Do you actually think that overall, the society deliberately lies to people? Meaning, do they themselves actually believe what they're saying? In their minds, is Armageddon really right around the corner, and all that. Obviously, most of the rank and file are sincere; or they would leave. They may be at the point where they have doubts that might one day wind up bringing them here and be suffering from dissonance because of it, but they're probably at least trying to go about their lives as they the WTS think they should.

    What I'm getting at is much more blatant than cognitive dissonance, though. I want to know if anybody thinks that the upper echelons are simply outright lying, to maintain monetary advantage, power, or any other reason. It would seem impossible to me, if promotion is from within, for anybody to get to that high a level in the organization, and simply not believe any of it on that large a scale, though. Yet somehow, it seems odd that some of the things they have done could have ever been done, if somebody at or near the top didn't just think the whole thing was a farce. Like the UN for example. Though, I suppose, one could argue that was similar to the Moses and the water from the rock incident...the leadership simply got a bit uppity with themselves, but were still sincere.

    Thoughts?

  • Sarah Smiles
    Sarah Smiles

    Yes, I think they are lying and I still wonder who is at the top getting the majority of the money! Yes some people up at the top of the food chain are having a big laugh all the way to the bank!

    But who are they?

  • Sarah Smiles
    Sarah Smiles

    Yes, I think they are lying and I still wonder who is at the top getting the majority of the money! Yes some people up at the top of the food chain are having a big laugh all the way to the bank!

    But who are they?

  • MidwichCuckoo
    MidwichCuckoo

    They can't believe that Armageddon is imminent or why would they be storing up treasures on Earth? (something they accuse OTHER FALSE Religions of doing while pleading poverty themselves). If the WTBTS had the Faith it claims to have, its wealth would be distributed for the good of humankind.

  • emptywords
    emptywords

    THEY LOVE THE GLORY AND ARE SO FAR UP THEIR OWN BUMS THEY CAN ONLY CONTINUE TO SPEAK SHIT......LIKE THIS RECENT TALK..... Note the new lightfhe four comings of Christ..Rev: 6 the apocalyptic horsemen.

    What Does The Future Hold?"
    May 20, 2007
    Gerrit Lösch
    Zone Overseer
    Finland

    Sister Lösch and I have visited Finland in 1989 and it's a great pleasure for us to be back and together with you. (Applause) We started our zone trip in Iceland and after that we went to the branch in Lithuania and then Latvia and Estonia, and finally we are here, and the brothers altogether that we visited asked that their love and greetings be conveyed to you. (Applause)

    I also have greetings from the United States Bethel family of about 4,100 members, and the other members of the Governing Body. We are now a total of nine in the Governing Body. (Applause) Well, personally you, probably know, some of you know some members of the Governing Body. I'd like to tell you just a little bit about the other members. First of all, I'd like to mention that the Governing Body's not American. It is a Biblically scriptural arrangement and the members come from all parts of the world. The oldest member is Brother John Barr, he is from England. And he is 93 years old now. Well, I'm a few months behind. (audience laughs) Oh, you understand English then. (Because the audience started laughing before the Finnish translation was given) Next, there's Brother Jaracz, Theodore Jaracz. He is of Polish descent. Then, another member is a Brother Morris, he has raised two sons. They are now both married and altogether they serve in the United States Bethel family. Another brother that has family experience, lots of it, is Brother Guy Pierce, because he raised 5 sons. Now they are all adults and married and all in the truth with their families. And then another member is Brother Samuel Herd, he's the only black brother that we have on the Governing Body. Another member is Stephen Lett, he served as a circuit overseer in the United States and so did his father. Then there's Geoffrey Jackson, he's originally from Australia, and he's served as a missionary for many years in the Pacific, during the past few years in the Fiji Islands. And Brother Splane, David Splane is another member, he's Canadian. Well, he had served in the French speaking province of Quebec in Canada before he went to Gilead and then served as a missionary in Africa in Senegal. Then myself, I come from Austria, not Australia, Austria. No kangaroos in Austria. So, you see, we are very mixed. But, what counts is not where we come from, but that the Governing Body is a scriptural arrangement that we find already in the first century, mentioned in Acts chapter 15. And you will remember a collective decision was made in connection with the circumcision issue. So the Governing Body today also collectively makes decisions for the worldwide work based on the Bible, but now we really have to start with our subject for today.

    Are you interested in the future? Many people in the world are, some are not. Some are phlegmatic, they have the attitude expressed in the movie by the famous actress Doris Day. And in one film she sang, "Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be, the future's not ours to see." Well, then, she was right as far as the personal future is concerned. We don't know our personal future. But we can know the future for the earth and for mankind. And why? Because Jehovah God has revealed it to us. This is knowledge in advance. This is the expression Peter used in 2 Peter 3:17. Please read....just the first part of it. (Translator reads) So it speaks of advanced knowledge. Now there's people in the world that make predictions for the future. Sometimes they come true, but sometimes they don't come true. So you can never rely on it. But the prophecies and predictions in the Bible always come true. And the reason is because, well, they come from Jehovah and Jehovah cannot lie. Paul expressed this in his letter to Titus, in chapter 1 and verse 2. He writes to Titus about the everlasting life and says, "Upon the basis of a hope of the everlasting life which God, who cannot lie, promised before times long lasting." Well, in the Christian Greek scriptures there's many prophecies and Jesus was a prophet and prophesied many things. Some of the prophecies that Jesus uttered had to do with his return. And, generally, also in everyday language we use the expression "the coming of Christ." But it's good to understand that there's not just one coming of Christ, but there's several. And we will discuss today 6 different comings of Christ.

    Well, the first one, and it's not forbidden to take notes, the first one is the coming of Christ that is mentioned in Revelation chapter 6. Thisfamous prophecy of the apocalyptic horsemen. And if you follow along in your own Bible you'll see that in the vision horses are seen of different colors. Verse 2 mentions a horseman on a white horse. Verse 4 mentions a red horse. And then verse 5 mentions a black horse. And finally, it mentions also a pale horse in verse 8.

    Now what do they mean? Well, it's of course, prophetic symbolism. The horseman on the pale horse signifies, as it mentions at the end of the verse, deadly plagues or diseases. The horseman on the black horse, he has scales in his hand, and to him it was mentioned that people would have to work a whole day just to be able to buy one liter of wheat. If you have to work a whole day and all you can buy with the money you get for it is one liter of wheat, wouldn't you say it's very expensive? And then it also says, on the other hand, the luxury items will not be affected. And so we see today, on one hand in some countries there's luxury and in many other countries there is famines. Every day 40,000 children die as a result of undernourishment. Do we see this today? Yes.

    But, what about the rider on the red horse? And it says here at the end of verse 4, "A great sword was given him that people would slaughter one another." But something else is said in connection with him and I'm going to read the text, but I'll make a mistake in reading and you find out what is the mistake. And it says there, in the middle of verse 4, "To the one seated upon it, on that horse, there was granted to take peace away from some countries of the earth." Well, that would not have been something special because in some countries there was always war. But the sign or significance is that this refers to a time when peace would be taken away from the earth, from the entire earth. So, when was that? When was it that 90% of all the world population was involved in one war? Why, it was WWI!

    Now, you've got to think that all these riders ride at the same time, and also the rider on the white horse, mentioned in verse 2, would ride. And who is it? It says, "A crown was given to him, and he would ride conquering and to complete his conquest." Well, the white color signifies righteousness. And who would carry on the righteous war? Christ Jesus. And the prophecy refers to the time when he would start ruling. It says, "A crown was given him," so that refers to the time when he would start ruling as king. Well, the conclusion is then that if the rider on the red horse has been riding since 1914, then of course, also the rider on the white horse has been riding since 1914, when he got the crown. So, you see it's easy to prove that Jesus started to rule in 1914. We can prove that independent from any chronology.

    Now, when Jesus would start to rule as king, in 1914, what would he do and what would be his first task? If you turn to Revelation 12 then you'll find out. The birth of the heavenly kingdom in Jesus' hands was compared here with the birth of a male child. And it was mentioned then in verse 5 that he was to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. But, when the Messianic Kingdom was born 1914 there was somebody that wasn't happy about it. It was Satan and the demons. So they started a war against Jesus. And it says in verse 7 there was this battle with the dragon but he did not prevail. Verse 8 says that, and verse 9, "He was hurled down, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, was misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." Well, Jesus conquered. Hmm. And, it says then in verse 11 (note: it's really verse 10 he's quoting from), "Now has come the kingdom of our God and the authority of the Christ" because he had become king. And then in verse 12 it says "Woe for the earth and for the sea because the devil has come down to you." Well, and this woe resulted in WWI.

    This war does not refer to the future battle of Armageddon. At that time Satan will be put in an abyss of inactivity. This battle would take place before because it says at the end of verse 12, if you'll look at the Bible, that the Devil has great anger knowing he has a short period of time left. Yes, from 1914 on he still had some time left. In Armageddon there's no more time left.

    Well, let's talk about the second kind of coming of Christ. And, please open your Bible to Malachi chapter 3, just before Matthew. And in chapter 3, maybe you can read the first two verses. (Translator reads) Well, the true Lord mentioned in verse 1 is Jehovah, but who is the messenger of the covenant? This refers to Jesus, he's the messenger of the New Covenant. End of verse 1 says, "He will certainly come." So, we're talking about a "coming" of Christ. What would be the purpose of this coming? It says here he would be like the lye of laundrymen, so like laundries being cleansed so he would cleanse people. And verse 3 says "Like a refiner and a cleanser of silver he must cleanse the sons of Levi." Well, of course, this is a prophecy that really was fulfilled in our modern times. Levi was the priestly tribe. Who today are those who serve like priests? Well, anointed Christians.

    Did they need a cleansing at a certain time in history? Yes, around the time from 1917-1919 there was a period of crisis and there was a cleansing of them. Well, the brothers made mistakes in those years and Jehovah wasn't pleased with this. And so there was a certain punishment. It's like the Israelites, they made certain mistakes and Jehovah punished them and let them go into Babylonian captivity. But then finally, after they repented, they were brought back to Israel. And anointed Christians also made mistakes. Jehovah punished them, but finally he brought them back to their spiritual condition. What did they do that was wrong? Well friends, since the Watchtower encouraged to pray for the victory of the United States in WWI, the idea was that this way democracy would be spread and it would make the preaching of the good news easier. But, that was a violation of Christian neutrality. The Watchtower encouraged to buy war bonds, and of course, that was not pleasing to Jehovah. Some of the brothers even went to war, they became part of the military, they put on uniforms. Others did not. Those who came back, they justified themselves, they said, "Well, we made a point not to kill anybody, we always shot only into the air." But it was a violation of neutrality to become part of the military.

    And there was other problems in this time of crisis, Brother Russell that had taken the lead initially, had died in 1916. Some brothers venerated him, and eventually developed a cult around him, idolized him. Well, they left the organization, they were cleansed out. See? And there were others that struggled for direction within the organization. There was brothers that wanted to, Brother Rutherford, to give up his power, so to say, and as a president, as a new president, and share it with others. Well, these men were not humble, and eventually they also left the organization. And so the organization was cleansed by-- from men that did not have the right Christian attitudes. And the ones that remained, and remained faithful, they were restored to a condition of, you could say spiritual paradise. Well, so this was the second type of coming of Christ, to cleanse anointed Christians.

    He would also come in another sense, number three. He would return, or come, to resurrect anointed Christians that have died from Pentecost 33 on. This is called the first resurrection. And where does the Bible speak about it? In Revelation 20, verse 6. And read this please. (Translator reads) So who would share in the first resurrection? Those who will serve with Christ as priests and kings. Well, the expression first resurrection shows that there is a second one, or general one, and that will be for the billions of mankind.

    Well, in Bible times when people married the custom was that the bridegroom went to the house of the bride, so he came to her, picked her up and brought her to his home. The night before Jesus was killed he referred to this custom and he compared himself to a bridegroom and anointed Christians to the bride. So, please look up John 14 and please read verse 2 and 3. (Translator reads) Well, Jesus prepared a place for them in heaven. He said that "...where I am you also will be." He said, "I am going to go and prepare it, but I am coming again." So we are talking about a coming of Christ, and events in modern history indicate that possibly this started in 1918. But, then of course, other anointed ones would just die in the years subsequent to this. They would also share in the first resurrection. And so they wouldn't all die at the same time, or not be resurrected all at the same time. This is expressed in Revelation 14. And here it says, verse 13, where it says, "Happy are the ones that die in union with the Lord from this time, possibly 1918, onwards." That means from that year onward, during the time of the end. You can read the rest of the verse also. (Translator reads)

    Now, number 4, we're going to talk about another coming of Christ, or coming in a different sense. Some of his disciples, when they were sitting on the Mount of Olives, were asking him about his return or coming, and we find their question in Matthew 24. And so in the second part of verse 3 they say, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence, and the conclusion of the system of things?" And where we say presence other translations sometimes say return. Well, the Greek word for presence, parousia, literally composed of two words, para' ousi'a means to be alongside. It's not referring to a point in time, but a period of time. It's the opposite of the word absence. Para, presence, absence. So, we can also say it refers to his royal presence. And since that would be something invisible, in heaven, the disciples wanted to have a sign, on earth. And he showed that this sign would be consisting in many things that would happen on earth during the time of his royal presence. And verse 7, for instance, speaks of it, please read. (Translator reads) Well, we can conclude again that this royal presence of Christ started 1914, but it goes on throughout the time of the end.

    In verse 14 it speaks of the preaching of the good news in all the inhabited earth as part of that sign. And if we share in the preaching we are part of a visible proof of Christ's invisible royal presence. Well, the good news is being preached every day today for more than 3 million hours. Well, the number of congregations keeps growing. Every week we have 24 new congregations, as an average. Just imagine, so many new congregations every week. Every weekend we perform baptisms. During the past service year the average number of baptized ones every weekend was 4,700. So, just think of it, every weekend you have almost 5,000 brothers and sisters more! Can we say that this scripture is being fulfilled now? Yes, because we are preaching in the whole world. So, there's plenty of signs or segments of, or parts of that sign to prove his presence.

    Now, let's talk about number 5. In what other sense would Christ come? In Matthew 24 again, in verse 30 he speaks of a sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven. Just read the first part. (Translator reads) So, that's not the same sign like the sign of the presence, because the sign of the presence would be a sign on earth, but now Jesus changes and speaks of a sign in heaven. In what will that sign in heaven consist? We do not know. It has not happened yet. But it will be very impressive, because Jesus goes on to say that "then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation," not, not repentance. And they will see the son of man coming, so we are talking of a coming of Christ again. But that would not refer to 1914, and not to his royal presence. It's future, and how do we know? From the context. In verse 29 it says it would happen immediately after the tribulation of those days. And the tribulation, the great tribulation has not started yet, and this sign would only happen after the beginning of the great tribulation. Well, the great tribulation has three parts, or phases. It has a beginning part. There's a final part. And there's also a middle part, a period of time where there will also be tribulation, and during that period a number of things will happen. Well, this beginning phase of the great tribulation will bring what? The destruction of false religion. So, the sign of the Son of man in heaven will only happen when Babylon the Great, the worldwide false religion will be no more.

    Well, then we have another coming of Christ, his final coming. In the same chapter of, in verse 42 it says that we don't know exactly when that will happen, but he warns us to be watchful and alert. Read verse 42 please. (Translator reads) And then verse, chapter 25, verse 13. (Translator reads) Well, the final coming of Christ is also mentioned in Revelation chapter one. And in verse 7, please read. (Translator reads) Well this coming is, of course, future. Because it says every eye will see him, even the enemies that figuratively pierced him. As of this date, well Jehovah's Witnesses see Jesus with their spiritual eyes of faith being present, but certainly not every person on earth sees him in that sense. But Jesus said in Revelation every eye, billions of eyes, every eye will see him. In what sense? In the sense they will realize the destruction that is coming upon them is not just a natural disaster. They will realize that this is the prophesied Day of Judgment for Christ to execute the wicked. It says all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves, not in repentance, but in grief because of Christ, because of him. Well, all the tribes in Russia, in Finland, in the United States, everywhere. Well, this refers to the final coming of Christ.

    But what can we expect of the near future? Well, the Bible foretells that a situation will arise where people will say "Peace and security!" It doesn't say that they will cry, but they will say "Peace and security!" Please read 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 and verse 3. (Translator reads) Well, how will this be fulfilled? Well, we do not know. It could refer to a situation where people will make a proclamation to the effect that they think peace and security has been accomplished. But the proclamation could also refer to the, or express, reflect the desire of the people for peace and security. But we will not be misled by such a proclamation, we know what will come. And certainly peace and security will not come by human efforts. And not by the United Nations.

    What else shall we expect for the near future? Well, turn again to Matthew chapter 24. And it speaks in verse 15 of a disgusting thing that causes desolation, and please read verse 15, and then 16. (Translator reads) Well this prophecy had a miniature fulfillment in the first century. And another fulfillment in our days. What was the disgusting thing in the first century that causes desolation? And then it should move people to flee out of Jerusalem and Judea? Well, a parallel prophecy shows it was the Roman armies. And there was the first attack of the Romans in the year 66 under General Cestius Gallus. And this would start the great tribulation on the city of Jerusalem, because in verse 21 Jesus says, "For then there will be great tribulation." For an unknown reason Cestius Gallus withdrew his troops from attacking Jerusalem, and this opened the way for Christians to flee the town. They fled to the mountains for safety. Well, in what sense was the Roman army something disgusting in the eyes of the inhabitants of Jerusalem? Well, the Roman armies carried standards with a symbol, senate and people of Rome, and there were ceremonies, they committed idolatry with these like people today with flags. And how was the reference to desolation fulfilled? Well, that was in the year 70 because the Romans came back and another general, Titus, and then destroyed, desolated Jerusalem. But Christians were already in safety because they fled out of the city after, in the year 66.

    Now what would be the prophetic parallel in our days? Well, today it refers to the United Nations. A situation will arise in the world where Christendom, pictured by unfaithful Jerusalem, will be threatened. It hasn't happened yet. And the desolation on Christendom and the rest of false religions will come. But Jesus said, "Let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains." Of course today we, there's no point in fleeing to a literal mountain, especially not in Finland, because there is no mountain, so what does the fleeing entail? Well, in other prophecies we are encouraged to flee out of Babylon the Great, false religion, and we have been doing that since 1919. But the fleeing out of anti-typical Jerusalem is not the same as the fleeing out of Babylon. When we fled out of Babylon the Great we had to change our religion from false to true. But those who fled out of Jerusalem in the year 66, they didn't have to change their religion, they were true Christians before and after, so it must refer to something else. Well, the fleeing back then was accompanied by the loss of material things. Jesus said that when they have an opportunity to run out of the city they should do it right away and not pick up anything from their house. Christians back then lost their businesses, they lost their houses, they lost all their personal belongings. And so in the anti-typical fulfillment we have to expect the same. When the great tribulation starts, we have to expect also the loss of our businesses, of our houses, of all our material possessions, perhaps not for everyone, but for many. Well, back then in the first century there would have been no point for Christians to try to increase their businesses, and perhaps their living accommodations knowing that they would have to flee when the Romans came. So does it make sense today to pursue a materialistic course, to acquire material things and possessions in probability we gonna lose it? Well, that's something serious to think about, isn't it?

    Well, we said that in the great tribulation false religion will find its end, it will be destroyed. Who will destroy them? Not Jehovah's Witnesses. But the Bible says it will be politicians, governments that will do that. And it will be forces within the United Nations. How is the United Nations foretold in the Bible? In Revelation 17. And it's compared to a wild beast of red color, and it says that it would exist for a while, and then not, and then again. Read verse 8. (Translator reads) Goes into destruction it says. Now how do we know that we are really talking about the political element here, in symbol of a beast? Well, the beast is depicted as having seven heads. Verse 10 says there's seven kings...okay, that's political. And verse 11 says that the wild beast itself is, that was, but is not, and comes out of the abyss is also a king, the 8th king, and it springs from the seven. Well, what political entity springs from other political entities? The United Nations. They existed for a while, from 1919 until 1939 under the name League of Nations. And after WWII, 1945, they came out of the abyss of inactivity with the name United Nations, but they actually continued with the leftover money from the League of Nations. It's the same beast, just a different name. Well, why does the Bible use the term beast to refer to them? Well governments themselves take wild beasts as symbols or representation for their national authority. Well, the United States they have the bald eagle as a symbol. The Russians have the double-headed eagle. Like Austria-Hungary had a double-headed eagle as a symbol too. And, in a sense, sometimes also the bear is used as a symbol for Russia. Other governments use a lion or a panther for their, as a symbol for themselves. So it's very fitting that the Bible also compares governments with beasts, with wild animals. And in verse 16 it says that these politicians at one point will start to hate false religion, so much that they are bent on destroying it. And read verse 16 please. (Translator reads) Well, it says God will give it into their minds to do this, and verse 17. (Translator reads)

    So, what do we have to expect in the near future about false religion? Well, we can expect that the governments will confiscate all the bank accounts of false religion. They will confiscate all church buildings, maybe....possibly....destroy. They will put in prison the clergymen, and perhaps kill some of them. The prophecy shows false religion will be totally destroyed. The only ones that will have survived are Jehovah's people....as a religion.

    Now, the members of the false religions, they will not all be destroyed because they live on until the final part of the great tribulation, Armageddon. But all systems of religions, yes, except us will be destroyed. And so, we see that like in the year 66 there was flesh that was saved. And who are those who were the flesh that was saved in 66? It was Christians that fled the city. In verse 22 it says, "In fact, if the days of the tribulation would not be cut short, no flesh would be saved, but on account of the chosen ones, those days will be cut short." And this being saved, as flesh, today has fulfillment when Babylon will be destroyed Jehovah's people will be safe. They are the flesh that will be surviving this destruction of false religion. But of course they will also then survive Armageddon, the battle, the final battle when Jesus comes as Judge and Executioner. Because in Revelation chapter 7 it says that "they will come out of the great tribulation." Revelation 7, and please read from the middle of that verse on 14 here, "These are the ones that come out..." (Translator reads) Well, if somebody comes out of a literal battle it means he has survived it. And to come out of the final part of the great tribulation also means to have survived it. So, the future will hold preservation and survival for God's people.

    But, what else do we have to expect between the beginning and the final part of the great tribulation? Matthew 24 again tells us, in verse 29. It says, "After the beginning of the tribulation the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken." Well, in what will this sign consist? Well, we call it the "celestial phenomena." Exactly what they will bring, we do not know. It has not happened yet. But it will be very impressive. And in Luke chapter 21 we have a parallel prophecy of Jesus. And he also uses this expression at the end of verse 26, "For the powers of the heavens will be shaken." In what will that result on earth? The beginning of the verse tells us, it says, "Men will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth for the powers of the heavens will be shaken." Well, people today have, perhaps, a measure of fear of the future. Some fear that through environmental pollution and global warming mankind will eventually destroy itself. Others have the fear that some asteroid in the future will hit the earth and destroy life on earth. But these types of fear are nothing in comparison with the fear that the people will experience when these powers of the heavens will be shaken. People will be so fearful that they will faint out of fear. And, in verse 28, we also find a positive element in this prophecy, "But as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift your heads up, because your deliverance is getting near."

    True or false. This verse applies to today. False, because it applies after the destruction of false religion, when these heavenly, celestial phenomena occur....the sign of the son of man, because, you note in verse 28 Jesus said, "as these things start to occur" and they have not occurred yet, then "lift your heads up." Well, it's true that every day deliverance comes nearer for one day, but the prophecy really has application in the middle part of the great tribulation. Then the deliverance is very close. If we preach from house to house we should not apply this text as if it has fulfillment now.

    What else will occur in the near future that we have to expect? Well, you see political elements have destroyed all false religion, then, they will think of destroying us also. And this attack is prophesied by Daniel, in the form of an attack of the King of the North, a symbolical king. And it's interesting, Jesus in Matthew 24:15 also refers to Daniel the prophet. In the course of centuries and millenia it was different political powers that played the role of the King of the North, it shifted sometimes. Who is the King of the North today? We do not know. There's evidence that up until 1991 it was the Communist bloc of nations under the leadership of the ex-Soviet Union. But we do not know who will be the King of the North at the end of the prophecy. But when they attack us, then, at the latest, then we will know.

    The Bible also prophecies an attack on God's people by a symbolic name Gog, and we assume that this refers to Satan the Devil. It's mentioned in Ezekiel, chapter 38. And possibly these two prophecies, the attack of the King of the North and the attack of Gog will happen at the same time. They will occur shortly before the final part of the great tribulation.

    Well, the foretold future in the Bible is certain to come, but we, we should be ready. There's indications that it is very close, this coming of Christ in his final coming, but some may say, "Well, there's still many people in the earth that have not heard the good news personally yet." Well, there's 1 billion mainland Chinese. Well we have congregations there but of course in comparison with the number of people, Jehovah's Witnesses are few. India also now has more than 1 billion people, and we have not preached in all of India yet. India has many languages. We have published in 24 languages of India we have published material, but they have 1,600 languages. Papua New Guinea only has 700. It's sometimes not known that many nations have many languages. Mexico has 62 languages. Nigeria has 220 languages. Well, we have printed material in over 400 languages, but there's so many languages in the world that are spoken. We should not expect that we will have something in each language, even if only a small tribe speaks that language.

    And Jesus did not say that the good news will be preached to all individuals on earth, he just says to all nations. He also says that we will not be finished with the preaching work when his final coming would be. Where does he say that? In Matthew 10. He also speaks here about persecution, and says, "When they persecute you in one city, then flee to another." Well, that would result that in one city there would be Witnesses, but in another city there would not be any Witnesses. They would not be equally distributed. And the ratio of publisher to population would not be about the same in all the nations. Jesus goes on to say, "Truly I say to you, you will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel," that is with preaching, "until the Son of man arrives."

    Well, there's an intriguing expression, "cities of Israel." Does that text then only refer to the first century? No, because Jesus connected with his arrival, you see, "until the Son of man arrives" and he did not arrive in the first century. So, what it really means is that we will not be finished with the preaching work when Jesus arrives in his final coming. But, we want to be zealous and do what we can to....every person is precious in Jehovah's eyes. We want to help as many as we can to get saved.

    Well, it appears that the great tribulation could be very close. How do we conclude? Think of the 8th king, or 8th world power, United Nations. Prophecy says they will exist, and then be in an abyss, and then come out again, and then go in destruction. How long did they exist prior to WWII? Twenty years, 1919-1939. How long have they been in existence after coming out of the abyss? More than 60 years! So they are already out of the abyss three times as long as existed prior to the abyss. How much longer will Jehovah permit them to exist before they go into destruction? Well, we don't know exactly, but it could be very close.

    Well, the future will also bring probably economic difficulties for many people in the world, but the near future will also bring wonderful things for us. Paul writes to the Thessalonians that it will bring relief...the coming of Christ. It will bring liberation. Well, of course then when the great tribulation has ended and God's people have survived into the new world, there will be a lot of work to do. If somebody doesn't want to work hard, the new world is not the right place for him. Ezekiel chapter 39 says that it'll take 7 years to cleanse the earth from the leftovers from the destruction of this system of things.

    Whether it is a literal 7 years or maybe figurative, we don't know, but it will take time to cleanse the earth. And then a miracle will happen. Then, the resurrection will start. And how beautiful it will be to embrace our loved ones that we lost in death. And to get to know our close relatives, some of them we have not known.

    We do not expect everybody to be resurrected at the same time. When I came into the truth in the Fifties they said the estimate was that 12 billion people have lived in the past. Well, after so many years since then, probably we could estimate 40 billion. Just imagine if 40 billion would come in the resurrection all in the same day, that is impossible to handle. So we expect one generation after the other generation to come back, going backwards of course, in history. This will also prevent communication problems because every generation understood the generation of their parents. But not 200 years earlier, maybe they would not understand them.

    How long will the resurrection last? We don't know exactly, but in the Insight book calculation was made, and it said that perhaps it will last 300 years. And it will be so nice to get to know our great-grandparents. Because each person has two parents, 4 grandparents, and some didn't even know all the four grandparents, but then there's 8 great-grandparents. I knew only one of the 8. And then there's 16 great-great-grandparents. Would you like to know who they were? Well, in the resurrection you'll get to know them, generation after generation.

    Now we said that we do not expect all of them to come back on the same day. Well, we have to prepare the earth for their arrival. Once, when Jesus resurrected a girl, the first thing Jesus said was, "Give her something to eat." So, when the dead ones come back in the resurrection, after a few hours they will be hungry, but they have no food. Well, we have to prepare the food for them in advance. When they come back in the resurrection they don't own houses or apartments. The survivors of Armageddon will have to prepare houses or apartments for them. Well, there will be a lot of construction going on. Well, right now it seems we are preparing for this...the Kingdom Hall construction in all the world. We are building about 3,000 Kingdom Halls every year. And we're doing it faster and faster, the brothers get more and more skilled. Well, the worldwide Kingdom Hall construction may well be a good training now for the future construction work for the resurrected ones.

    We do expect though, based on the Bible text, that faithful patriarchs and prophets will come back early in the new world. And, perhaps they will be put in positions of oversight to organize the work.

    Well, what if somebody this side of Armageddon has by an accident lost his arm or leg, what will happen in the new world? We expect that it'll be immediately healed. Jesus on one occasion healed the withered arm of a man in a second. Now, if we look at the animal world today, there's a certain animal that's called the octopus. The giant octopus has 8 arms, like every octopus, and is strong as the arm of a man. When a shark bites off one of these arms the octopus has the ability to regrow the total length of about 2 meters of that arm. It's amazing that the octopus can do that, but Jesus can do it faster. Well, in the new world also we will be able to throw away the glasses, and the hair will grow again. The wrinkles will disappear, we'll have skin like a baby. Also, the 4th set of teeth will come and grow, because the 3rd set is the artificial teeth. (Audience laughs) Should that be surprising? No. In the Amazon River there's the pirhanas...fish. Throughout their lifetime whenever they break a tooth they keep growing it new. And also, some types of shark can regrow their teeth throughout their lifetime. If that happens today with animals, well, there's absolutely no reason to doubt that it will happen in the new world.

    And we'll also be so happy that there will be no more oppression, no more exploitation. And there will be no more depression. And so those who suffer from depression, they can throw away totally their pills. There will be no drugstore. Nobody will need it, nobody will need it. And there will be no hospital. So, wouldn't you say that we have a wonderful future to expect? At the end of the thousand years probably, well, the general health of people gradually will grow better and better, until people are perfect at the end of the thousand years.

    Now our mind is a miracle today, but the problem is sometimes we forget things because our mind is imperfect. It is possible at the end of the thousand years whatever we read or learn we will never forget anymore. Perfect mind. Perfect way of living and conduct. At the end of the thousand years, especially after the final test, nobody will ever say, "I'm sorry, please forgive me" because people will not do anything for which they could feel sorry. Nobody will be committing sins. People will be perfect. And at the end of the thousand years, after the final test actually, the real life will only start. So, don't think just in terms of one thousand years. What about ten thousand years? Hundred thousand? One million? Ten million? Hundred million? One billion? Ten billion? Hundred billion? One trillion? One quadrillion? Quintillion? That's long, isn't it? But everlasting life is much, much longer than that because it means to live forever and ever and ever. And this is what Jehovah God in his love offers to you. We cannot earn this, it will remain a gift, undeserved kindness based on the ransom sacrifice of Jesus.

    But if we have appreciation then shouldn't we all try to put the Kingdom first and do what we can to promote spiritual interests? This is not the time to pursue material careers. This is not the time to pursue higher worldly education. We are not against education, but we are in favor of the highest education that comes from Jehovah through his word. When others observe you and how you're living, from these observations can they figure that you are really believing that the great tribulation and the new world is close? Or do you make decisions that would indicate that you think the great tribulation is far, far, far away?

    Well, we trust that your life gives evidence of your conviction that the end is near. And therefore, we encourage everybody to increase in knowledge of Jehovah and the truth, and to read the Bible literally every day, and meditate upon it. Try to apply it. And what do you think young people? Is daily Bible reading only for adults or also for children and teenagers? It's for everybody that can read. Some cannot read because they are blind, they can listen to a tape recording. But it would be good if everyone reads the Bible every day and meditates upon it. And it's not just because of the knowledge. One 13 year old boy that reads the Bible every day when he comes home from school, he was interviewed, and he said, "If I read the Bible every day it helps me to love Jehovah more. So, it's about love for Jehovah, not just about knowledge.

    Also, we encourage everybody to attend the meetings regularly, also during the mid-week. Some here have to work a little bit on that. And we encourage interested ones to progress towards dedication and baptism. And to speak with others about the wonderful future that Jehovah has in store for us.

    Just in way of review, we want to just review the various types of comings of Christ. Well, we mentioned that in 1914 he started to rule as king, and to throw Satan and the demons out of heaven into the vicinity of the earth. In 1917-1919, a time of crisis, he came to cleanse the congregations and the organization. He possibly came 1918 in connection with the first resurrection for those who would be kings and priests with him. And, since 1914 he's present as in his royal presence throughout the time of the end. Then, number 5, after the destruction of false religion he will come in connection with some sign of the Son of man, as he says. And finally, he will come in Armageddon and he will make a separation in the final judgment of people, either to be sheep or goats. And then the entire wicked system of things will be destroyed. And, as far as you personally are concerned, we trust that you will be among the sheep-like people.

    At Matthew 25:31 it says, "When the Son of man arrives," or comes, "in his glory," then he'll separate all nations, like sheep from goats. And verse 46 says, "The goats will go into, depart into everlasting cutting-off." It's not everlasting torture in a hellfire, but the Greek word ko'la sin means to cut off and it means cut off their life. But the righteous ones will go into everlasting life. So do you agree that Jehovah God has a wonderful future for us in connection with everlasting life in peace? Well, we want to continue to grow in our love for Jehovah and say as the apostle John said in Revelation 21:20 (note: he is really quoting from Rev. 22:20), "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus." (Applause)

    Well, our zone trip is not over, after Finland we have the privilege to serve the Norway branch. And then after that we go back to headquarters, and I would like to ask you whether you would like to give greetings along to the brothers in Norway and to the headquarters, and to the Governing Body, we'd be happy to do that. (Applause) Hope to see you again and we wish you Jehovah's rich blessings, and certainly we also want to thank Brother Vänanen for his hard work of interpreting (note: probably pronounced incorrectly, therefore spelling is likely wrong, it could be Väinanen). (Applause)

    The End

  • jeanV
    jeanV

    I believe more in the cognitive dissonance than deliberate lying.

  • sparrow
    sparrow

    I believe in not reading the post from emptywords (sorry emptywords). Too long, it's late, I'm on my second bottle of wine and it's a f@#^ing 45 min talk...

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde
    Now, you've got to think that all these riders ride at the same time, and also the rider on the white horse, mentioned in verse 2, would ride. And who is it? It says, "A crown was given to him, and he would ride conquering and to complete his conquest." Well, the white color signifies righteousness. And who would carry on the righteous war? Christ Jesus. And the prophecy refers to the time when he would start ruling. It says, "A crown was given him," so that refers to the time when he would start ruling as king. Well, the conclusion is then that if the rider on the red horse has been riding since 1914, then of course, also the rider on the white horse has been riding since 1914, when he got the crown. So, you see it's easy to prove that Jesus started to rule in 1914. We can prove that independent from any chronology.

    So we can prove that Jesus began his ride on the white horse in 1914 because his ride began at the same time that the rider of the red horse began his ride? That's just irrefutable proof!

    It's hard to believe that at one time I would have sat through that talk and believed it.

  • emptywords
    emptywords

    I believe in not reading the post from emptywords (sorry emptywords). Too long, it's late, I'm on my second bottle of wine and it's a f@#^ing 45 min talk..

    Ha ha ha sparrow I really didn't think anyone would read it all that was the whole point in my intoduction. Nothing new just a whole lot of spin, and applause for the idol WTBTS and GB free loaders.

    cheers

  • sparrow
    sparrow

    Stick around empty words - I'm picking the smallest ones to read and reply tonight. I have 3 - no 2 more posts before I hit the hunchg (that's hun-je phoenetically)

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