The meaning of "abstain from blood"

by voodoo lady 17 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • voodoo lady
    voodoo lady

    This has been a fixation for me lately, mostly in trying to appeal to my mother to at least consider blood transfusions as an option in the most extenuating circumstances. My attempts have fallen flat thus far. We've discussed principles versus rules, and though she concedes that principles are in fact more important than rules, she reverses her stance when it comes to this particular issue, and rules become more important than principles. We have, of course, discussed fractions, but she holds technology and medical advancement to blame for the very existence of this issue, rather than the policy-makers who dictate what she may or may not take into her body.

    We recently had a discussion about the meaning of "abstain from blood." I suggested to her that this perhaps means "abstain from blood-guilt" or in other words "abstain from murder" or "abstain from sacrifice" but of course she said there is no other way to interpret this than in the most literal sense. One of the most frustrating things about the way my mother sees the world is that she doesn't understand that humans may interpret things in different ways, even if they have the same intentions. It's like two people reading a novel and having completely different pictures of a character in their minds even though they're reading precisely the same words. She also tells me we can get the bible's interpretation of the bible which is nonsensical - a book cannot interpret itself. I guess I should know by now that logic doesn't apply to JW rules, nor to my mother's way of thinking, but I can't help but try.

    Does anyone else think that "abstain from blood" could quite reasonably be interpreted as "abstain from blood-guilt?"

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Quote her the scripture where it says "abstain from fleshly desires".

    1 Peter 2:11

    Holman Christian Standard Dear friends, I urge you as aliens and temporary residents to abstain from fleshly desires that war against you.

    If she takes that just as literally then she should be disfellowshipped for getting hungry, or feeling like going to the toilet, or having sex even though one is married and so on. Any fleshly desire and you are worthy of disfellowshipping and death!!

    Of course that is absurd and not what Peter was talking about, You can *only* understand the scripture "abstain from fleshly desires" if you use your own brain and reading the context to understand the REAL meaning of what Peter means.

    So if you have to do that with one scripture, why would the SAME RULE not apply when the bible says "abstain from blood"???

    Using the same principle, the admonition "abstain from blood" HAS to be interpreted correctly just as "abstain from fleshly desires" does.

    IT CANNOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY!

    Pope

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    Hi voodoo lady! I don't know if you ever seen this or not, but here's some great info copied from jwfacts.com..

    The Law of Moses was read in Synagogues every Sabbath. The passage from Leviticus 17:1 to 18:27 applied to both Jews and Gentiles. This passage has the same four requirements, listed in the exact order as that given in Acts 15. These were the compulsory rules for both Israelites and foreigners living in ancient Israel. These were considered of utmost importance to Jews due to being based on the Noahide laws.

    • Genesis 8:20 "And Noah began to build an altar to Jehovah" introduced the concept of abstaining from idolatry
    • Genesis 9:1 "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth." Introduced the idea of marriage and not fornication
    • Genesis 9:4 "Only flesh with its soul-its blood-YOU must not eat" was abstinence from things strangled.
    • Genesis 9:6 "Anyone shedding man's blood, by man will his own blood be shed" introduced the blood law by forbidding murder. Once more we see that the foundation for the law on blood was respect for life.

    This is why these four items meant so much to the Judaizers and why the Apostles concluded that upholding them was necessary to prevent stumbling within the surrounding Jewish congregations.

    Paul specifically states that there is nothing wrong with eating food sacrificed to idols and explains that this prohibition was provided so as not to stumble others. This was only an issue in congregations that were having trouble between Judaizers and Gentiles.

      1 Corinthians 8:4-13 "Now concerning the eating of foods offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no God but oneā€¦ Nevertheless, there is not this knowledge in all persons; but some, being accustomed until now to the idol, eat food as something sacrificed to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. But food will not commend us to God; if we do not eat, we do not fall short, and, if we eat, we have no credit to ourselves. But keep watching that this authority of YOURS does not somehow become a stumbling block to those who are weak. For if anyone should see you, the one having knowledge, reclining at a meal in an idol temple, will not the conscience of that one who is weak be built up to the point of eating foods offered to idols? 11 Really, by your knowledge, the man that is weak is being ruined, [your] brother for whose sake Christ died. But when YOU people thus sin against YOUR brothers and wound their conscience that is weak, YOU are sinning against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat flesh at all, that I may not make my brother stumble."

      1 Corinthians 10:25-33 "Everything that is sold in a meat market keep eating, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience; for "to Jehovah belong the earth and that which fills it." If anyone of the unbelievers invites YOU and YOU wish to go, proceed to eat everything that is set before YOU, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience. But if anyone should say to YOU: "This is something offered in sacrifice," do not eat on account of the one that disclosed it and on account of conscience. "Conscience," I say, not your own, but that of the other person. For why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person's conscience? If I am partaking with thanks, why am I to be spoken of abusively over that for which I give thanks? Therefore, whether YOU are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God's glory. Keep from becoming causes for stumbling to Jews as well as Greeks and to the congregation of God, even as I am pleasing all people in all things, not seeking my own advantage but that of the many, in order that they might get saved."

    Even though the decree at Acts 15 says to abstain from eating food sacrificed to idols, Paul makes clear that there is nothing wrong with this practice. He said it was only wrong when it stumbled the brothers, in this case the Judaizers. The same principal applies to blood. Acts 15 included food sacrificed to idols, blood and animals strangled because they caused stumbling in the mixed congregations due to their being read "in the Synagogue on every Sabbath", not because they are offensive to God. This became less of an issue after the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. and holds no relevance in our era.

    Abstaining from blood is never mentioned in any other context in the New Testament. It is never discussed as a reason to shun a brother. Paul does not mention eating blood at 1 Corinthians 5 as a reason to 'quit mixing' with a brother, neither does John mention it. In Revelation 21:8 and 1 Corinthians 6 blood is not said to be a reason for not inheriting God's Kingdom. If avoiding blood was a key requirement of God it would be mentioned alongside sins such as fornication, murder and idolatry that are repeatedly condemned in the New Testament.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Hi Voodoo Lady. From the sound of your mothers comments, she has no interest in reasoning with you and will continue to believe that what comes forth from Brooklyn (for the time being) must be followed without exception.

    To answer your question, there was a thread from Terry a couple of days ago showing that the decree to Noah was actually against blood shed and not eating blood. See http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/189254/1/A-Twist-ending-to-the-BLOOD-policy-of-Jehovahs-Witnesses

    The decree in Acts was probably based on the Mosaic Law rather than the Noahide laws and so would have related to eating blood. However, Acts only applied to ease tensions between Jews and Greek Christians and does not apply today, as shown in the comments above. To try to apply the Mosaic Law since the death of Jesus undermines the value of the Ransom Sacrifice.

  • TD
    TD

    This doesn't carry much weight because for most people, everything they learned about language in school went in one ear and out the other (Literally)

    What the JW's have done with the phrase, "Keep abstaining...from blood" is semantic legerdemain. It is ungrammatical and I can't tell you how irritating it is that so many fall for this nonsense.

    What would it mean if I were to come up to you and say:

    Abstain from boat

    Abstain from telephone

    Abstain from shrubs

    Abstain from bus

    These phrases are obviously nonsense and there is a reason for that. The verb, "Abstain" expresses a state. It is not an action in and of itself. Complete thoughts require an action.

    The only way an "Abstain from" phrase will work is if there is a finite action that our minds can plug into the phrase to finish it.

    For example:

    Abstain from wine means "Do not drink wine"

    Abstain from junk food means "Do not eat junk food"

    Abstain from sex means "Do not engage in sexual relations"

    The exact same situation exists with the phrase "Keep abstaining from...blood" and the only action that we would be justified in plugging into this phrase would be something directly suggested by the context.

    The context of course, was a discussion over whether Gentile converts to Christianity should be circumcised and follow the Law. Therefore the eating of blood as forbidden in the Law is unquestionably the context.

    With that in mind, notice how the following translations render Acts 15:29

    "abstain from food that has been offered to idols, from tasting blood, from the flesh of animals that have been strangled, and from sexual vice."

    James Moffatt

    "eat no food that has been offered to idols; eat no blood; eat no animal that has been strangled; and keep yourselves from immorality."

    Today's English Version

    "avoid what has been sacrificed to idols, tasting blood, eating the meat of what has been strangled and sexual immorality."

    Phillip's Modern English

    "You must abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or eating the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality."

    New Living Translation

    "abstain from eating food offered to idols and from unbled meat of strangled animals and of course from fornication."

    The Living Bible

    "Do only what is necessary by keeping away from food sacrificed to false gods, from eating bloody meat, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual sins."

    God's Word Bible

    "But you should not eat anything offered to idols. You should not eat any meat that still has the blood in it or any meat of any animal that has been strangled. You must also not commit any terrible sexual sins."

    Contemporary English Version

    "That you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from [tasting] blood and from [eating the meat of animals] that have been strangled and from sexual impurity."

    The Amplified Bible

    "You are to keep away from everything that has been given to gods. Do not eat blood or meat from animals that have been killed in ways against the Law. Keep away from sex sins"

    New Life Version

    "You must not eat food that has been given to idols. You must not eat the meat of animals that are killed by choking. You must not taste blood. You must not commit adultery. If you keep away from these things, you will do well. Goodbye."

    The Bible in Worldwide English

    So in answer to your question, the phrase "Abstain from blood" means "Do not eat blood."

  • pirata
    pirata

    By the time I finished typing this up poopsiecakes & jwfacts already posted many of these points. But here's my personal list that led me to change my mind about the WTS Blood Policy (thanks to many others who have posted here and elsewhere).

    Genesis 9:3,4: Blood represents the animals "soul" or life

    Leviticus 17:10-12: The Blood was an atonement for the life taken. (Is a life being taken for a blood transfusion?)

    Leviticus 7:22-27: Anyone eating the fat of certain animals or the blood of any animal would be killed. (But was this a hard and fast rule? See next scripture).

    Leviticus 17:13-17 (Also Leviticus 11:39.40) A Israelite would be killed if they killed an animal and then ate the blood. If they found an animal already dead and ate the blood, they would be unclean and need to bathe in water and remain unclean until the evening. (Again this shows that blood is an atonement for a person who purposefuly killed an animal. Eating an already dead unbled animal was allowed).

    Deuteronomy 14:21: Israelites were allowed to sell unbled meat from an already dead animal to a foreigner to eat (w 04 9/15 p26). This and the preceeding scripture show that the primary issue for not eating the blood of an unbled animal was cleanliness of a "holy" people. A seperate issue from atonement.

    1 Samuel 14:31-35: The Israelites disobeyed God's command of eating the blood of animals they purposefully killed. They were given a reprimand, not killed. They atoned for their sin by offering sacrifices. 1 Sam 14:23 and 1 Samuel 15:1-3 suggest that Saul was still in God's favor during this period of time.

    Now how does that apply to Christians?

    Acts 5:28,29 says to abstain from 'things sacrificed to idols', 'blood', 'immorality'. Why was this?

    1 Cor 8:4-13 shows that eating food offered to Idols was a conscience matter. However, the gentile christians were exhorted to not stumble the Jewish Christians. This can be seen by the fact that 1 Cor 6:9-11 and Galatians 5:19-21, both extensive lists of things that Christians must avoid, make no mention of abstaining from blood and things sacrificed to idols. Also, Acts 5:28,29 was by no means an exhaustive list, thus there were the "necessary things" to promote peace between the Jewish and Gentile Christians (reading the whole of Acts 5 will show that the whole issue arose because some Jewish Christians were saying it was necessary to be circumcised).

    Note: The WTS says that the phrase "things sacrificed to idols" means "idolatry". However if you check the WTS Greek Interlinear Bible, you will see that the EXACT same word is translated "things sacrificed to idols" and "food sacrificed to idols" in Acts 5 and 1 Cor 8, respectively. They are referring to the same thing.

    In Conclusion from the above scriptures: For the Israelites. Abstaining from Blood means showing respect for, or atoning for an animal that has died in order to provide you sustenance. For Christians these rules were recommended only to avoid stumbling others who were sensitive aout this issue. A blood transfusion does not result in the death of the donor's life, and thus, should not be connected to the atonement "principle" of the mosaic law.

  • pirata
    pirata

    May I add: Reasoning with her may not change her mind, but it may get her to start thinking about accepting all minor fractions, including Hemoglobin.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    moshe also started a thread on this topic and I scoured the whole Bible and posted every verse that delt with the prohibition of blood on that thread (Blood Transfusion 101 for JWs). Every verse I found delt strictly with dietary restrictions and while I am not 100% sure that I got every verse, I am reasonably certain that I manage to get 99% of them at least.

    To illustrate the hypocrisy and double sided nature of Jehovah's Witnesses, I asked an elder about the Trinity. He told me that some verses in the Bible seem to show that the Trinity is real, however we must take the whole Bible into account when we reason upon things. Funny how this reasoning does not apply to blood transfusions and what the whole, "abstain from blood" verse means.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    To expand on Garyneal's point, Abstain from Blood appears in the OT and NT ONLy in regards to dietary restictions and sacrifical rites.

    It is NEVER applied outside that context.

  • TD
    TD

    Another aspect to consider is why English translators of all stripes overwhelmingly prefer the word 'Abstain' for the infinitive middle, apechesthai.

    Because the meaning of the word 'abstain' is to keep or prevent yourself from doing something, it is implicitly understood to be voluntary.

    That's why 'abstain' is used in connection with desires that one may choose to voluntarily forego rather than real life and death physical needs. Typical examples would be the desires for alcohol, tobacco and sex. A closely related word, 'abstemious' actually means "Sparing in eating and drinking, Moderate Temperate."

    English translators don't make this choice casually. They choose the word 'abstain' with these nuances of connotation because it is a functional equivalent of the way the Greek expression was used:

    ..kardias te apechesthai kai kuamon.. = abstain from [eating] heart and beans (Suda, Pythagorus 3124)

    ..apechesthai twn sarkikwn = "abstain from carnal desires" (1 Peter 2:11)

    ..apechesthai brwmatwn.. = "abstain[ing] from food (1 Timothy 4:3)

    ..apechesthai ai apo kakon.. = "to abstain from evil" (Job 28:28 LXX)

    ..apechesthai twn allotriwn = abstain from [what is] another's (Aristotle)

    The modern form of the Greek word has for all intents and purposes become an identical equivalent to the English 'abstain.' For example, if I wanted to say:

    abstain from wine = apechete apo to krasi

    abstain from milk = apechete apo to gala

    abstain from blood = apechete apo to haima

    abstain from cigarettes = apechete apo ta tsigara

    Depite what legitimate criticism of the New World Translation there may be, it does render Acts 15:29 very accurately. It clearly indicates the request that Gentile converts comply with an existing command against eating blood

    "To keep abstaining....from blood"

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