The Power of Faith

by AllTimeJeff 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    The Power of Faith (latest blog o' mine)

    There is a big difference between looking at a picture of the Empire State Building and actually visiting it. To have a friend tell you that it is great, that it is amazaing, awe inspiring and grand won't do it justice until you see it for yourself.

    In a similar way, there is a big difference between having a healthy faith, and being told to have a healthy faith.

    Many who used to be JW's, as well as a fair number of Christians, spend a lot of time on ex JW boards, looking to promote a simple thought. "Look, even though JW's didn't have it right doesn't mean that all religons are wrong. (or that Jesus isn't god)

    Its really quite convenient if you are exiting. For whatever reason, one might be tempted to simply piggy back onto someone else's powerful conviction. Isn't that certainty what's missing now? When anyone leaves JW's, there is a general void where the dogmatic indoctrination used to take place. One gets so used to being told what to believe, what is right, what is wrong, that our good ol brain atrophies like a muscle. Due to a lack of use and practice, it can be quite scary to suddenly realize that you are responsible for your own thoughts and actions.

    It could possibly explain why an exiting JW can be so angry at the JW organization. Look at what they could have done? College! Marry the person they were really in love with? So many options that they didn't allow themselves to take advantage of, because a group of men did their thinking for them.

    It also explains a bit why some go from being a JW to another religion almost as quickly as they leave. For some, they are convinced that god exisits, for others, to believe that god exists is all they have ever known. So when they have to be on their own, and think about whether or not there is a god, or a true way to worship exists, rather then take the time to think it through, some look for another group to do their thinking for them.

    That is a rather judgmental statement I guess... (apologies)

    To soften that, I guess then the most important question for all of us is: Have I taken the time to think for myself? To ask myself whether these things are true that I believe in?

    Do I know why I believe what I believe? Or am I once again taking some person or groups word for it?

    Speaking for myself, the biggest mistake that I see stated by those who leave JW's is that they allowed this group to do their thinking for them. If that is a mistake, why repeat it?

    Faith is a very powerful thing in ones life. My faith moved me to go to Gilead and become a missionary in Africa. I don't regret those decisions, as they made me who I am today. I regret that my faith wasn't my own, that it was a transplanted Watchtower template that I was asked to put faith in.

    Sadly, it is not generally most religions M.O. to encourage you to think, and even to doubt, so that one can critically examine their own beliefs. The biggest enemy of dogmatic religious thought is the good ol mirror, both symbolically, and even literally.

    To be able to look at yourself, and see who you really are, and to be comfortable with the person staring back at you, is one of the greatest gifts that only you yourself can give to you. It can't, shouldn't be, granted by any religion. I personally believe that if god exists, the last thing he would want is for you to take some group of people's word for it that he is around somewhere.

    Any religion that tells you what to think, how to view god, and (especially) how to view yourself, works against god, not for him.

    So I hope that while faith in a higher power, or god, works for you, and stirs the heart, remember that god gave you a brain too. Use it. That would show him the greatest honor, because then you would really know that which you love.

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    Nice post, Jeff.

    I'm of the opinion that faith is a mental disorder. Accepting ideas without proof is dangerous and should not be encouraged.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    I'm of the opinion that faith is a mental disorder. Accepting ideas without proof is dangerous and should not be encouraged.

    Because of the good I have seen (and to be honest, must also acknowledge), I don't consider "faith" to be a mental disorder, per se. I do think however that promoting faith and convictions based on conclusions we have personally made is a mistake. (like telling everyone to believe in "god" because he "spoke" to you personally...)

    For all the good that faith can do, faith cannot help one to think, or know oneself, if you are basing it on the testimony of another.

    I do see that individual faith does wonders... for the individual. It's group think faith that I believe needs to be approached cautiously. The problem always with faith is what is believed can rarely be proven.

    It's an interesting dynamic, one I am still fleshing out...

  • wobble
    wobble

    I am with you to a degree OMG, I call myself a "Scientific Christian " in that, like scientists, I have my theories and beliefs ,at present, but if proof comes along that something else makes more sense I will change my theories and beliefs.

    But along with that goes a certain amount of pure "Gut Feeling " that again ,until proven wrong, I will go with.

    AT Jeffs point is well made though, it is so easy to let others think for you, and the vast majority of Witnesses nowadays have only ever done that, so getting into the mind set of being cynical and critical is not easy, but it is the only way to end up happy with where you are.

    love

    Wobble

    P.s Jeff the link to your blog did not work for me ???

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Wobble, I find myself agreeing with you a lot... I will take your responses out of order...

    so getting into the mind set of being cynical and critical is not easy, but it is the only way to end up happy with where you are.

    I couldn't agree more. Organized religion teaches that doubt is a sin, but in reality, its only a threat to their authority over you. The key to organized religions faith is the agenda behind it, which is their survival and/or its expansion.

    If religions could somehow get it through their thick skulls that doubt is growth that is healthy, not a sin to be punished, they might actually grow, and have more mature membership as a result.

    But along with that goes a certain amount of pure "Gut Feeling " that again ,until proven wrong, I will go with.

    The road I am on more and more honors that "gut feeling". In the end, we must answer for ourselves. It's not that our gut is always right, but it isn't always wrong either. The key is in learning its language, and knowing how to interpret what we are saying to ourselves. I really think that doing that honors "God".

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    We all use, choose, buy, sell, exchange "ready-to-think packages" -- religious, philosophical, political or others. Sometimes mix them so as to sound "original". Very rarely come up with, or come across an idea which we can really call ours because it resonates deeply with us (and when this happens it doesn't matter whether we came up with it or came across it). The least thought part of our thinking being that which we are not even aware we have "bought" because everybody thinks so -- so-called common sense for instance.

    I doubt anyone would think better without any influence -- if such a thing were possible. An ex-JW who has been exposed to one nearly exclusive influence for years will much likely reproduce the same exclusive structure of thinking and constitute a one-(wo)man-cult if s/he doesn't open to other, and preferably a variety of other influences. Trusting our senses (taste, smell, feeling as much as "seeing" or "hearing") is after all the only way we can deal with such influences. If they don't make us "right," they may at least make us "wrong" in a way that suits us better.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    We all use, choose, buy, sell, exchange "ready-to-think packages" -- religious, philosophical, political or others. Sometimes mix them so as to sound "original".

    Yup, I think they call this "parenting." We all start off inheriting much of our world view from our parents. (as well as possibly, our temperaments) It's an interesting dynamic, in that parents are frequently taught by organized religion to teach their children what to accept and believe, not how to think.

    That is why I frequently fall back on the argument that if any of us were born in the Middle East (like Saudi Arabia, for example) that not only would we be Muslim, we would be prejudiced to the Western lifestyle most of us are accustomed to. But our parents, religion, and culture gave us a package of thoughts, and many accept them without question.

    I doubt anyone would think better without any influence -- if such a thing were possible.

    It isn't possible, but I postulate that it is best to influence others by encouraging them to think and see possibilities, not things to say "Yes" or "No" to. In fact, it is those black and white world views that hurt. It seems though (however slowly) that people are becoming more aware of alternative points of view. Yes, they go against tradition, but that isn't a bad thing...

    Trusting our senses (taste, smell, feeling as much as "seeing" or "hearing") is after all the only way we can deal with such influences. If they don't make us "right," they may at least make us "wrong" in a way that suits us better.

    Not a whole lot to say other then I agree with this. (like that makes you "right" Narkissos....)

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    Oh, I don't think being religious has been officially catagorized as a mental illness, at least not yet. LOL

    But, I do think it could be due to an inherently different way of looking at things. Psychologists have some evidence that different personality types are more prone to be religious or irreligious, or to be more introspective, spiritual or idiosyncratic about beliefs.

    I'm a pretty liberal believer, and I don't discount science at all. I find room for God in science, as many do. I don't see any contradictions in the kind of spirituality I embrace and practice and science or evolution.

    Religion is often just codified versions of rational and practical human behavior. Most of the basic rules of religion are universal as we all have a fairly low tolerance for thieves, scams, cheats, murder, wanton violence, they all destabilize our groups and communities. The other stuff is just decoration and probably there to define oneself as part of a group or NOT part of another group, which is a fairly strong human need for some.

    That's why religions which focus on the rules become the basis for division, eventually. Only the people who have this need to define themselves strongly with a certain group will be willing to follow the more extreme ones and only the easily misled and masochists will follow abusive ones for too long without protest or rebellion.

    I think spirituality or that vague feeling most of us experience of wanting some connection to the rest of the universe or what is beyond the senses is pretty innate in humans. It's not even a bad thing, it's a good thing as it feeds creativity and intuition, some other uniquely human attributes, but it gets misapplied in some terrible ways, doesn't it?

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi,

    I think the trouble for the ex JWs here was that they found their faith was totally misplaced in "their religion" and thus are very cautious not to misplace it again.

    I agree that we need our brains engaged and wisdom operating. For example, take these words of Jesus.

    Matthew 18:8-9 (New International Version)

    8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

    Is Jesus telling us to literally gouge out our eyes and cut off out limbs? No, otherwise every bible believing Christian would be blind and maimed. Using our brains and the wisdom that God gave us says that Jesus is just making a big warning about not missing His free gift of life and going to the eternal concious second death.

    As you see though, it takes faith to believe the words of Jesus. Is there really a life to come and a second death? Is what we choose in this life really so important?

    Jesus made some big statements, likely the most controversial ever made so it is worth checking them out and deciding if He is Divine or deluded.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    That's why religions which focus on the rules become the basis for division, eventually. Only the people who have this need to define themselves strongly with a certain group will be willing to follow the more extreme ones and only the easily misled and masochists will follow abusive ones for too long without protest or rebellion.
    I think spirituality or that vague feeling most of us experience of wanting some connection to the rest of the universe or what is beyond the senses is pretty innate in humans. It's not even a bad thing, it's a good thing as it feeds creativity and intuition, some other uniquely human attributes, but it gets misapplied in some terrible ways, doesn't it?

    Great points mindmelda. I agree with you on this, and feel similarly.

    I think the trouble for the ex JWs here was that they found their faith was totally misplaced in "their religion" and thus are very cautious not to misplace it again.

    Chalam, this is from a different perspective, but what one might call "trouble", others might call "a lesson well learned."

    Is Jesus telling us to literally gouge out our eyes and cut off out limbs? No, otherwise every bible believing Christian would be blind and maimed.
    Using our brains and the wisdom that God gave us says that Jesus is just making a big warning about not missing His free gift of life and going to the eternal concious second death.

    Because this isn't the point of this thread Chalam, I won't debate the particular scripture you used here. I see that your faith is very powerful in your life.

    However, the point you are trying to make bears a comment, as I was partly alluding to this point of view by some Christians. On the one hand, you would commend a bible reader for not taking the passage you quote literally, yet you take literally the idea of a 2nd death? To each their own, but I hardly call this selective theology superior to anyone else taking other parts of the gospels as useful. One can certainly benefit from some of the sayings attributed to Jesus without having to believe that they will die if they don't worship him.

    But again, as you put it.

    Jesus made some big statements, likely the most controversial ever made so it is worth checking them out and deciding if He is Divine or deluded.

    Speaking only for myself, having read the bible over 20 times, I have come to my own conclusions, and they don't match yours, with all respect. Nonetheless, it is up to each person to decide what to believe, put faith in, and how much of their precious, limited terrestrial time to invest in learning of the metaphysical...

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