Certainly.. that would be one more venue of activism. We may need to organize the first worldwide "Visit JW.ORG with apostate cookies on your browser day"
StarTrekAngel
JoinedPosts by StarTrekAngel
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23
What I really fear about JW.ORG
by StarTrekAngel inmuch has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the wtbts may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box.
from name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to dfing anyone who dares to look outside.
many tools and theories have been brought forward.
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23
What I really fear about JW.ORG
by StarTrekAngel inmuch has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the wtbts may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box.
from name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to dfing anyone who dares to look outside.
many tools and theories have been brought forward.
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StarTrekAngel
Captive portals hardly require any interaction with the ISP. It is in their best legal interest to have a level of logging for the sites visited while on their wifi. But again, I would suggest against anyone using the KH wifi at all. Using the wifi at any public place presents an inherent risk for yourself as well as the business/org providing it. While I may use the wifi at a Starbucks, I use seldomly and for very trivial stuff. Besides, they are not going to ban me from their store if I use it to visit the website for another coffee company.
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23
What I really fear about JW.ORG
by StarTrekAngel inmuch has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the wtbts may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box.
from name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to dfing anyone who dares to look outside.
many tools and theories have been brought forward.
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StarTrekAngel
Much has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the WTBTS may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box. From name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to DFing anyone who dares to look outside. Many tools and theories have been brought forward. The latest of this, has been the upcoming of new electronic means of distributing information. From the well known website, to mobile apps and electronic literature distribution, many wild theories have been put forth as to what is the real purpose behind it all.
While I am sure that the GB would not pass on any opportunities to root out defectors, lets not forget that, like any business, they also need to make new members. Keeping the current count is not a viable solution. All businesses, for profit or not, require a factor of growth in order to just survive, let alone thrive. I would ask that you keep this in mind as you read. I believe it is one of the key factors in understanding what might be going on at WT HQ.
Many people have feared of what could happen if they were to install the new apps on their mobile devices. Comments of potential spying and site tracking have been presented. Whie technically speaking (and only if strictly technically speaking), everything is possible, I will attempt to explain, from my IT background, what makes financial sense, which in the end, will tell the likelyhood of the WT of embarquing on some of the huge tasks of habit tracking.
To begin, lets take a quick look at the technical aspect of it. The internet of today, is a heavily distributed network, where hardly any single stream of information comes and goes on the same connection at the same time. The trend is to make this diversification even more complex. This is the very tactic that keeps the internet running smoothly and reliably, so we can only expect it to get worst. Depending on how you get your internet, chances are that the minute the information comes from or leaves your household, it takes a redundant route. And from here, it only gets more complex. Meaning that the route the information took to get to you, is not necessarily the same route it would take when it goes up grom your connection. Sometimes this can be even for your neighbor, who may have the same service as you, but his information may come and go from and to a complete different paths than yours. The point I am trying to make here is that it is really difficult to track information live. Having work for an ISP for over 10 years, I can tell you that it is a whole lot easier to do when you own your network, but this only allows to you to work with your own connections. I am pretty sure that not all JW use the same ISP.
This is why it is not far fetched to think that having an app made by them is about the easiest chance they get to peek into your privacy. This is true to some extent, and technically speaking, everything is possible, but not likely. This would be the most incidious form of spying on you. They could actually get to know every single word that you type on the device. Software that do this are found on the internet every second. They are called "Key loggers" and are usually part of virus programs. Hackers use this to capture your password and credit card numbers, among other things. Most times, however, antiviruses would pick this up and let you know. What is the likelyhod that the new apps are spying on you? I'll say close to none. See, for starters, the WTBTS needs to become a registered developer with the companies that develop the devices. This is in order to gain access to the developer tools and kits that are required to succesfully launch an app that actually works. From here, you may market your app indepedently from the device manufacturer, but the development interface still requires certain things. For the most parts, apps are not able to access all your information without permission. When, for example, you get a pop-up in your ipad that says "X app would like to access your photos", this is an example of the manufacturer requiring that apps ask for consent before accessing critical information. Such message is nor part of the app you develop but rather the system in the phone or tablet detects an unwarranted access. While this is not always flawless, any unkown breach or lack of check by the manufacturer, will be eventually corrected. Many years ago, an app came out that made it possible to turn your iphone into a wifi hotspot without paying extra. The app made use of a flaw in the IOS design that allowed for this without checking for payment. This was eventually discovered and the gap closed, rendering the app useless. In the other hand, if you do market your app over the, for example, apple store, then apple will first certify your app to be free of this issues. One of them being security and assuring that the app would not access information without your consent.
On another corner, you have the possibility of them capturing what you do while using the wifi at the KH. Here they have more lineancy. This is their turf now and they have more right than you do. However, they will eventually, for their own protection, have to provide you with a thing called "acceptable use policy". If they plan to continue letting publishers to use their wifi, they will need this. If they have not done so yet, it is proof that their IT IQ is far behind or disconnected from the legal aspects of what they are doing (By the way, the main point of my writting surround the technical/financial feasability, not legal). If they thing about it for just about 10 minutes, they will realize they might be shooting themselves in the foot by allowing anyone to use their wifi. All it takes if for one person to do something illegal, and get in trouble. The acceptable use policy would show that they have made you aware of the limitations on using it and thus providing certain level of protection for the org. Most times this are done electronically. Very much like when you log in to the free wifi at a hotel. You are redirected to a page (called a captive portal) where some of your information is collected in order to track you later if needed. This can be done off site too. For example, you could jump into the KH wifi, which will, upon first connecting, redirect you to a JW.ORG server for authentication. Here some information about your device will be collected. What other personal information is collected at this time is up to them, but they need to let you know (this would be part of the acceptable use policy). Here they could, without much effort, track the sites you visited. Their acceptable use policy would have to clarify which sites or type of sites are not allowed before they can question or ban your activity. They, however, would have to block the sites directly rather than come to you later asking for an explanation. This, however, would not stop them from questiioning a certain site on spiritual grounds, even if they did not provide you with an acceptable use policy. As you can see, this is very much a possibility, but who in the right mind would come visit apostate sites at the KH? I would not dare to use their wifi even to check the weather. If someone was to do something illegal, authorities could come around asking to check your device. This has happened to regular folks in their home. I can recall a news article from years ago where a person's home was broken into by the SWAT team. He reportebly downloaded tons of child porn. Upon further investigating his computer, they realized his wifi had no protection. Someone had been using his wifi to do this and he got the blame.
The above could be extended into your home. If you were to willingly allow your internet traffic to be scrutinized (as part of your spiritual e-shield LOL). In the very same token, you could have your wifi be setup the same as the KH. This, however, is not as easy. The KH can be required to acquire certain equipment that can be too expensive for your own use. It would not be the most effective way to keep track of your activity, specially when you can always say a relative was using it, visiting sites you would have not dare to visit. A second twist to this, could be if they offered to filter your traffic. This is much easier to achieve from a subcriber perspective. However, the amount infrastructure required on their end, may make this an undesirable option. They would basically need to create an internet of their own. Many governments do this, to some degree, but it has proven to be ineffective against those who are resolved to get thru it. Most JW may not have the tech know-how to avoid the system, but just as easy as one can follow instructions on how to get in on the sytem, someone could provide instructions on how to get out. They could do this filtering for you by means of a fee... sorry, donation. Giving them the financial support needed for the infrastructure but my feeling is that given the increasing number of witnesses that have embraced the internet, soon it would be too much of a burden for them to carry. Besides, they would have to give the option to filter or unfilter certain sites that you find objectable but they don't. You know, those that are left to your concious?
Last but not least, I am fairly sure that they are tracking your visits to their site. Chances are they are also getting a clue of what other sites you visit. Cookies and other tracking mechanisms can provide and summarize this information for them without much effort. This, however, can not be used to personally idenify you, unless there was a legal ground for it. Basically, you would have to have their infrastructure attacked (digitally) for them to use that information and demand, over the legal system, that your name and address be provided. Another cause would be if you were distributing their copyrighted material. But they would need electronic evidence of this. At most, with the current information that they are surely tracking on JW.ORG, they can probably tell what percentage of visitors have actually gone to apostate sites or watched porn before going to JW.ORG. What clothes you buy, what online channels you watch, what plans of travel you have, and so fort. But none of this can be pinned to you personally without legal grounds.
So far, we only explored the tools they could use to retain memebers or cast out apostates. None of the above will necessarily help them get new members or assure that those that are considering it, will not be made aware of their mistake. This is why I consider all of the above to be a bit of too much of an effort in order to keep people from starting out of the org. Like I said before, they also need to grow new members. I would not discuss how they would do this, my writing is about what I fear or do not fear about the new JW.ORG
So what is it that I fear from JW.ORG? It is certainly none of the above. What I really fear is the push they have on producing everything electronic. At this moment, we still enjoy the ability to do independent research by consulting old publications. Most magazines and books are still downloadable. It is known though, that most of us have 1000s of personal and family pictures stored in our computers without backup copies. While our old paper picture albums were too dear to us to toss away, the same can not be said about our digital lives. We feel like the computer is always going to be there. Many have resorted to the "cloud" in order to have our information be available. That is a fairly good move. Most JWs, however, would not likely save the old mags or will delete them unrecoverably if asked to do so. The moves towards an JW Library app is by far the worst. When connectivity becomes more and more common, and cloud storage continues to get cheaper and cheaper, I can see the org moving towards and all-cloud based architecture. Where you app will be "synched" to the latest "light". There will be no need to redownload a book or a magazine because of a change. Mistakes and "changes in understanding" will be corrected on their own servers and synched to you the next time your device gets online. That's right, there won't even be a need to push a "synch now" button. There will be no way for someone to read old material. Someone technically savy, although more towards an expert level, could certianly find a way to save old mags and articles, but I am pretty sure that such literature will be distributed using electronic certificates as means of "seals of authenticity" and in order to read the material, a hacker would have to hack the certificate as well, rendering in non-authentic, or at the very least, unchallengeable by someone without the knowledge to verify. If any of it succeds, it is always possible to say that it has been altered and therefore is not trusworthy. You won't have the good-old scan type digital file, where the most untrained of audiences could judge wether it was an original magazine or a photoshopped one.
And that my friends, is what I truly fear about an organization that already has the attitude but lacks all the tools. Now we are witnessing a process, in my point of view, where the tools are catching up to the attitude.
My two cents, which just like that widow old lady, are the only means of survival I have.
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StarTrekAngel
thanks for the input sloppyjoe2.. I guess is part of being left to the device of the local elders... I guess it is alive and kicking on some cong. IF this was truly instructed by the org, though, it would happen in all of them
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StarTrekAngel
Hey hamsterbait... which WT is that?
label licker.. do you have any links to information on the case you are talking about?
Thanks
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StarTrekAngel
Thanks sloppyjoe,
Specifically speaking blood. My take on the blood issue is that the change would have to come in the form of time. Long enough that no one would remember about the last person that died refusing a blood transfusion. Long enough that if so someone does, it could be chalked up to personal choice and not influence. In the meantine, they need to continue working with the medical community on alternatives because there is still too many members that stand strong on the subject. They need to avoid as many deaths as possible while the issue is forgotten. To make a sudden change would bring way more lawsuits than they can handle.
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JW TV - One Further Step Towards Making the Organization Soft & Cuddly
by steve2 inone of the more astonishing developments within the organization in recent years is the muting of the more "out there" behaviors of this once fiercely confrontational and proud end-times religious group.. members were unapologetically no part of the world and couldn't give a rat's ar*e what you thought of them.
whereas the organisation fostered an outlook of warning the "wicked" world of the imminence of its destruction at the hands of the almighty - and spared no effort in doing so - nowadays the organization is sucking in its more "loose cannon" elements.
in the place of these elements is a sparkling, smiling, airbrushed group of worshippers who parade their wholesome settled lifestyle to win converts.
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StarTrekAngel
How is it that no one is commenting on the bling that the presenter is wearing on the intro video? Where is the humbleness and simplicity?
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JW TV - One Further Step Towards Making the Organization Soft & Cuddly
by steve2 inone of the more astonishing developments within the organization in recent years is the muting of the more "out there" behaviors of this once fiercely confrontational and proud end-times religious group.. members were unapologetically no part of the world and couldn't give a rat's ar*e what you thought of them.
whereas the organisation fostered an outlook of warning the "wicked" world of the imminence of its destruction at the hands of the almighty - and spared no effort in doing so - nowadays the organization is sucking in its more "loose cannon" elements.
in the place of these elements is a sparkling, smiling, airbrushed group of worshippers who parade their wholesome settled lifestyle to win converts.
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StarTrekAngel
That would be nice Thisismytigersuit. They host the www part of their internet presence on the akamai cloud, though, not as easy to hack as if they would do it on their own servers. I am pretty sure too that the hosting is distributed enough that if you hack it, it may appear hacked to some users but not all.
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StarTrekAngel
Much is being written these days as to where is the org going. There is no doubt that the steering wheel is moving. Many of us are like that child, sleeping in the back seat on our way to disney. After hours of driving, we feel the car changing direction, still sleepy, we mumble... are we there yet? Then we begin to look around for clues that would tell where we are exactly.
Many of us who dare to look outside the box (pund intended) can easily tell we are going somewhere. My curiosity has always been, though, what about those inside the box? While the answer seems to be the obvious "they are brainwashed and could never tell", the truth is that no change comes without pain. That is a fact of life, no matter what you believe in. You can not make the change too suddenly.
With that in mind, most of the changes coming are usually hinted at in publications. Most times they are too subtle to notice while you are half asleep during the WT study. For the most part, only once you notice the bigger picture and go back in your magazines, then you realize you were being told about this, but just did not notice. Although I would say that such awareness of change goes more like this...
You notice something new...
You question the elder...
Elder points to magazine, either inmediately or at a later time...
Elder makes you feel less of a Christian because you were not paying attention...
You walked away in shame...
You are now way more suceptible than before to follow suit, even if you disagree...
Here is one example (although I don't dare to bring this one up and correct me if I am wrong) but I recall many years ago, we use to have a special section of a meeting, every year, dedicated to analyzing the issue of blood transfusion in detail. We would also take the chance to make this special meeting into a "sign-your-no-blood-card rally". Everyone who was ready to do it would then feel specially encouraged to proceed. Its taken me quite a while to notice that, at least in our cong, we have not done any of the above for at least 3 to 4 years.
With this long intro, I am attempting to analyze change from the inside. What subtle CYA (cover your a$$) hints at change are coming that most JWs won't notice? I can't tell them all because I've only started doing this recently, but here is what I can recall
- The blood issue mentioned above.
- While not as strange, financial statements in my cong have not been read publicly for years now. Only posted on the board
- We use to make sure to add the "our work is funded by voluntary donations" at the end of every presentation and the KM was specially used to remind us of it. Have not heard this mentioned in years.
I am sure there is more.
One thing that specially caught my attention was the July WT. I know JWsurvey has an extensive article on this. I noticed something else, in addition to what Cedars has published, that may hint at a change. I am trying to get as much input as possible because I want to make sure I am not reading too much into it.
Look at the article titled "Jehovah know those who belong to him". Take a chance and read the whole thing and tell me if it doesn't tell you that apostates may be seen differently in the future? To me, the verbage used seems to imply that faithful servants of the org, should not question why Jehovah does not deal with those who are clearly apostasizying. Let me put out some bullet points on this..
- Pargraph 4 explains how Paul wrote to Timothy about the harm of apostasy but clarified "Despite that, the solid foundation of God remains standing..". It then proceeds to have a detailed explanation about how these were good choice of words. It explains the significance of the "foundation" in the first century and the seal that some foundations use to have. In a nutshell, no matter who lives in the house, the seal of Jehovah is there for those that are "known to him".
- There is hardly any mention on how the cong and the BOE deals with apostates and why. Most of the focus is on how God is not going to remain inactive and HE, not YOU, would take care of it.
- Paragraph 15 goes as far as discouraging judgment against those that may look like they are falling for apostasy. Goes to the extend to tell that it would be hurtful to your own spirituallity, if you begin to question the faithfullnes of your brother or sister.
- Paragraph 16 reminds us that we should mind our own business.
- But the most shocking (at least to me), is the picture on page 9. Here you can see Timothy arguing with an "apostate" over scripture... in front of the congregation. That would never happen today. Not only they will change subjects rather than engaging in debate, but they would never do this in front of the cong. Was this a mistake from the writing department?
Now, what is there to gain from such change? Would this not truly endanger their grip on people? Not if planned properly. Not if you demonize apostates enough before you let them roam free in the cong. Besides, what better way of reinforcement, at the dawn of the 100 year of the kingdom, than to have the "let the weed and the wheat grow together" prophecy be fullfilled in front of their very own eyes? I would feel safe to say that none of the current members have ever witnessed a prophecy being fulfilled. They've heard stories of Russell announcing the "end of the gentile times" but no one has lived thru such events. Everything they've got is second hand accounts.
In the long term, becoming a more mainstream religion could end up having a more disastrous effect on people than the current policies have. At the times when information spreads like wildfire and they realize the outreach and the effects that the inernet has on people, letting the grip go for a while may not be as bad as one may think. At the time when most JWs (who were confronted with TTATT) are "waiting on Jehovah" to clarify the doutbts they won't admit to, having new light that would ridicule an apostate, would just prime them for more unquestioned obidience. If you think is hard to wake someone up now, wait for that day when they could tell you "I remember the last time you brought this up and Jehovah made a fool of you".
I welcome anyone to please comment and correct me. Feedback and criticism is exactly what I am looking for. I will proudly stand corrected. But if indeed my statement is somewhat correct, I believe that nothing short of an all out revolution will ever stop this org from further inflicting damage on the lives of its followers.
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JW TV - One Further Step Towards Making the Organization Soft & Cuddly
by steve2 inone of the more astonishing developments within the organization in recent years is the muting of the more "out there" behaviors of this once fiercely confrontational and proud end-times religious group.. members were unapologetically no part of the world and couldn't give a rat's ar*e what you thought of them.
whereas the organisation fostered an outlook of warning the "wicked" world of the imminence of its destruction at the hands of the almighty - and spared no effort in doing so - nowadays the organization is sucking in its more "loose cannon" elements.
in the place of these elements is a sparkling, smiling, airbrushed group of worshippers who parade their wholesome settled lifestyle to win converts.
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StarTrekAngel
I agree with Steve about how they are repainting their message of doom. I can't believe that is so evident and no one notices. I don't think Noah went around preaching love and positiveness when he would rather be the weatherman.
Funny story related to this.. I attended the spanish international convention in Houston this year. Two talks back to back, summarizing off course, went like this..
Talk one .... the end is so near we can touch it... quote "What about the increasing number of fatal deseases and earthquakes? The WHO said that this past decade alone, more than 100 new deseases were discovered" end of quote
Talk two, right after talk one ... Lets make our message in field service more positive.. quote "There is no need to sound negative, telling people about the increasing earthquakes or the hundreds of new deseases. We are there to tell people about our faith, not scare them.." end of quote
Almost sounds like the second speaker came to correct the first one. This is no joke, those words were spoken literally.