I do not think WT has painted in the corner in relationship to their members. Majority of the members do not care about pedophilia scandals and cover up, they will support the FDS all the way to the Armageddon. Many organizations had similar scandals, but often close-knit communities like WT will not admit mistake. They will blame the world, Satan, demons, victims, but never will acknowledge any wrong doing. And the JWs would support them and shield them. Organizations that went through shakeup under such issues were forced by own members, but this would not happen with average, brainwashed JW. WT knows it and this is all what it matters. The HQ may sacrifice couple pawns in the process, but I agree with flipper on this.
Posts by kaik
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45Governing Body, painted in a corner, now what?
by Wasanelder Once inthe governing body have painted themselves in a corner, so to speak.
if they acknowledge their response to abuse claims was insensitive, unloving and inadequate they are denying the belief that "god's way" is best and risk losing abuse cases.
if they stick with it and say it is "god's way according to the bible" they will be seen as cult leaders and risk losing abuse cases.
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63
How dishonest was the Apostle Paul?
by opusdei1972 inmay be some of you will be shocked by this question.
however, when i was studying the bible with critical eyes i detected that paul ( or saul of tarsus) misquoted the hebrew bible in order to get false support for his arguments.
of course, this tricky kind of use of the "scriptures" was not only used by him, but others, like the author of the gospel of matthew got unsupported doctrines misquoting verses.
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kaik
Greek and Roman societies were two diametrically different society. It has a lot to do with geography, historical development, and ethnicity. Greek world was extremely fragmented due nature and geography. Greeks did not have problem to enslave each other and wage a war with each other all the time. They lacked unifying force, even Alexander of Macedonia did not unify all Greek-states.
Rome was built with extensive military force. In its peak it was as big as Napoleon Grande Armée 1800 years later as a permanent fighting force. Army was the center of the Roman hierarchy. It disposed the rulers, sold the imperial seat to the highest bidder, secured peace, access to public services, and social rise. It provided also stable monetary benefit for the members and after years of service, some place to live. Romans also held its power by force, but also carrot policy to its provinces. It was policy to "rewarding the friends and punishing enemies". Many people looked upon Rome for security, peace, stability, and prosperity. Not all provinces were conquered by force, some of them were deeded, and other chose Rome over barbarians like Noricum.
Both Greeks and Romans were extremely pious and religious. Faith had importance in every day life, and family was detrimental for survival. The idea that Romans spent every evening on orgies and brothels, is much of the Christian invention. While there is not denial that this happened, they were not defining moments of daily Greeko-Roman citizens.
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How dishonest was the Apostle Paul?
by opusdei1972 inmay be some of you will be shocked by this question.
however, when i was studying the bible with critical eyes i detected that paul ( or saul of tarsus) misquoted the hebrew bible in order to get false support for his arguments.
of course, this tricky kind of use of the "scriptures" was not only used by him, but others, like the author of the gospel of matthew got unsupported doctrines misquoting verses.
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kaik
Roman society was not ascetic as was the case of Middle Ages, or denial of sexuality as was the case in Victorian era, which witnessed destruction of thousands of arts from Antiquity, Renaissance, and Baroque era deemed to be immoral. According to Joyce E. Salisbury, whose "The Blood of Martyrs: Unintended Consequences of Ancient Violence" mentions that Roman society was deeply conservative, where the family was the backbone of the civilization. Women were subject of their husband or fathers, and they did not have sexual freedom we see it through 21st century eyes.
There are dozens books on Roman family, sex, and scandals from Imperial Rome. Wayne R. Dynes in 1992 characterized Republican Rome as a conservative, authoritarian, and restrictive attitude toward sex, women considered as inferior, and a deep fear of homosexuality. Roman society was militaristic, dominated by mighty army which prohibited sex that would undermine power structure and command line, unlike Hellenistic world, where sexual attitudes were more open.
Generally, in the term of sex, people see Roman society through medieval and early Christian ascetic views, and get their judgment impaired by movies like Caligula. In fact, many people find sexually restrictive, conservative, behavior in Rome shocking.
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How dishonest was the Apostle Paul?
by opusdei1972 inmay be some of you will be shocked by this question.
however, when i was studying the bible with critical eyes i detected that paul ( or saul of tarsus) misquoted the hebrew bible in order to get false support for his arguments.
of course, this tricky kind of use of the "scriptures" was not only used by him, but others, like the author of the gospel of matthew got unsupported doctrines misquoting verses.
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kaik
Rome was already leading power during the Republic. Levant was under control of Roman empire for 100 years at the time of Jesus. While Greeks was the most dominant language in Roman empire through its history, it was never language of the majority. There was 18-20 millions of Greek speakers in Roman Empire while the Empire in the peak had 80 million people. Rome as city dominated the empire and the Roman emperors dictated the fashion. When empress changed her hairstyle, so did every free women from Britain to Judea. Picture of the emperors were all over the empire as official documents had to be signed under "Imperial" presence. Caligula was big admirer of Egyptian pharaoh lifestyle (maybe reason why he was sexually active with his sister) and wanted to move his court to Alexandria. Either way during his reign, men kept their hair short or shaved, because he was balding. It was his big handicap and he was ashamed of it.
Paul was a Roman citizen, therefore, he followed legislative proceedings and benefits of the Roman world, which included Roman citizenship. This was Latin benefit, and had nothing to do with Greeks. Greeks were regularly enslaved and sold as a cattle on slave markets all over the Roman empire. Paul would have not much to gain from being Greek speaking in the position of the Imperial court where he appealed.
"Sexual issues? Well, he's talking to people who live in the land of the orgy"
People are too much affected by viewing the movie Caligula and gossip courts stories, and subsequent Christian ascetics, but generally, Roman society was very conservative. Even on the matter of sex subject. While sex was available, so did prostitution, same-sex relationships, free attitude, we cannot talk about sex as open in Roman time in our post 1960's sexual revolution. Romans would not even kiss in public as it was not recommended since the time of Augustus. Commodus was ridiculed for kissing his favorite boy-toy in public, and Severus criticized for showing affection to his wife Julia Domna.
Either way, it is not possible to separate Paul from Roman citizenship. He was born with it and it was still very rare in his lifetime for non-Latin subjects. Emperor Caracalla expanded in 212, but in 50AD we can estimate about 7 million of Roman citizens in the empire, most of them in Italy.
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kaik
pity that A.H. did not stick with his paintings.. world would be better place.
If there were three people in the history that should not be born, he is one of them., second is Stalin, and third is Ghenghis Khan.
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kaik
In countries north of the Alp that were under Catholic control, blond baby Jesus was rather normal. There are also different Madonna and Jesus baby depiction as a black woman with child called Black Madonna. There are dozens of medieval and baroque depiction ranging from Polish Czechstochowska to Guadeloupe. There are no unified depictions and colors of Madonna from the same country at the same century. Bohemian Gothic between 1300 and 1400 depicts them in blue, red, or golden colors.. -
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The Confederates Were Biblically and Constitutionally Right About Slavery.
by Village Idiot inhow low can conservatives go?
how racist can they get?
and whats more, two black conservative men?!?
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kaik
Nothing surprising. Also remember, there were people of colors who fought along the side of Nazi Germany and were in SS (around 40000 or so). There was entire regiment of them during WWII and many came from former German colonies in Africa like Namibia.
Slavery was justified by bible all the way in the late Antiquity. While many Christian thinkers thought of it as morally wrong; they believed it was a natural order of the society. In medieval times, and later during Enlightenment, Christianity in both parts of Europe justified serfdom, lets be Protestant church in Germany and Prussia, or Catholic church in Austrian monarchy. It was actually secular government that abolished serfdom in the 18th century against protest of clergy. French revolution abolished slavery after secular Jacobins with Robespierre got control of the government during the Terror. Church leadership did very little to improve people's conditions. They actually thrive in people's misery.
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Reserve currencies and China.
by zeb inin october 2015 there will be a huge move likely to include china into the worlds "reserve currencies".. this is likely to see a run on the us dollar and trading that is done in us dollars.. i am not predicting gloom but it will impact on all of us and perhaps may be behind the obsession of the wt to stack up as much real estate and the green stuff as they can..
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kaik
October, together with August are very bad months for stocks. I would be more worried about long term decline on the stock market than on Chinese currency deal. Stock market is the a few areas that gave people return on the investments. Savings, MMA, were not giving big returns for years. China owns very little of US debt in comparison to whole US economy. Most of the US debt is held by American institutions than foreigner government. China has own debt problem, somewhere it is around 250% of GDP including its private sector, so their options are also limited. -
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How dishonest was the Apostle Paul?
by opusdei1972 inmay be some of you will be shocked by this question.
however, when i was studying the bible with critical eyes i detected that paul ( or saul of tarsus) misquoted the hebrew bible in order to get false support for his arguments.
of course, this tricky kind of use of the "scriptures" was not only used by him, but others, like the author of the gospel of matthew got unsupported doctrines misquoting verses.
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kaik
I would also add regarding long hair.. Paul was a Roman citizen and as such influenced by customs normal in the Roman Empire. He lived during the reign of Caligula, Claudius, and Nero, where behavior, fashions and standards were dictated by imperial court. What was fashionable in the court, entire empire followed. The long hair fashion was disapproved by Caligula, who was bald by age 25 and had very big handicap from it. He did not allowed men with long hair around him or hoovering over him due balding.
When I read Paul with view that it was written by Roman person who acted on it when it was profitable and suitable, I cannot shake negative feeling on him. Additionally, it is rather ridiculous when Paul demanded a justice from the hand of Emperor Nero.
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Ray Franz and You.
by John Aquila inif ray franz would have kept his mouth shut and not disfellowshipped, and remained part of the governing body how many of us ex-jw would still be trapped in the cult?.
would we have come this far?.
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kaik
He did not had effect on my decision. I have only read his book some years later after I had left. There were people who left WT cult before him and they will be people leaving regardless if he stayed in highest circle of the borg.