sf - what is the prupose of silent lambs? Is it to expose all corruption of the WT or is it to aid vicitms and force changes in religious policy? If silent lambs-(it's very name indicates what the purpose is supposed to be) carried out such a skit would it not take away from the child abuse issue? On the other hand if all similar groups gathered in washington and focused on the pediphile issues and laws governing religions would that not have more of an impact?
kelsey007
JoinedPosts by kelsey007
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Dearest Dragon & Kelsey
by BB inis there some purpose to be gained by attacking bill bowen and silentlambs?
do you honestly feel that bill bowen can be equated to the gb and is exercising his own form of brainwashing?
are his motives so disingenuous?
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A new era in religious freedoms...
by kelsey007 ini honestly believe that we have reached a new era.
though religious freedoms must stand more accountability must be forced.
as our laws are today churches have liberties beyond that available to any other group or individual in this nation.
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kelsey007
Look at the history of organized religion....
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What's with the media and the march
by Lady Lee inwhere are the reports.
what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.
were they threatened.
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kelsey007
Just got off the phone with my ex wife who is a active jw. Though the conversation was in regards to my sons health I brought up the silent lambs march and gave her the web address. No she had never heard of the march or the silent lambs movement or the pediphile issue. Not only is she a jw but also her parents in KY. None knew a thing about it. Attacking washington as a joint effort to effect laws as a tool to force a change is the only option that will work. JWs are a closeknit, sheltered group who will stand behind the GB for fear of losing grace with the org.
If the march in NY did not gain any media attention the WT will not repsond to the march, No damage control needed. If laws are put in place with a penalty of losing tax free status for not complying changes will be made.
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What's with the media and the march
by Lady Lee inwhere are the reports.
what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.
were they threatened.
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kelsey007
dj- I am not anti bowen or anti jw. I am pro aid to the victims and reform in laws to force changes in all such religious organization. To be openingly critical of such things is a great american value. It grows balance and sparks new ideas. To blindly throw my support into a cause is foolish. Regardless of how noble the cause may be.
After 34 years of vocal restraint I will be damned if anyone intimidates me now out of my free expression of my views. I believe that my views are as important as anyone elses out there. If such vocalizing was allowed in the WT would it not be a better place today? Most would think so I believe. The same here- such criticisms should be taken as constructive.
Posting about squeeling tires and loud mufflers in front of a KH is not good PR for silent lambs. That much I know as a fact. By my bringing this fact up maybe it will be realized how a lot of outsiders would view silent lambs after hearing of such conduct. It takes away from the credibility of the cause. As to the allledged victim of the GB member- I never said that it was not true nor did I say that it should not be pursued. I only stated that IF the person that claimed to have known the accuser is correct about her- a quick public outcry could be damaging to the cause without further investigation.
If, and I say only IF, the allegation is without merrit- much damage is caused to silent lambs for prematuraly publicizing such an allegation. That is all I said on that subject.
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What's with the media and the march
by Lady Lee inwhere are the reports.
what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.
were they threatened.
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kelsey007
izo I also noted in another thread that someone that new the girl who made the accusation also alledged that she had mental issues of some sort- if that is true it indeed was a bad move to make such a story of her accusation. That one should have been dealt with more quietly.
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Dearest Dragon & Kelsey
by BB inis there some purpose to be gained by attacking bill bowen and silentlambs?
do you honestly feel that bill bowen can be equated to the gb and is exercising his own form of brainwashing?
are his motives so disingenuous?
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kelsey007
The fight is against pediphiles- or at least I thought. Did bowen have to know a lot about pediphiles to fight the fight? No more than the rest of us I assume. Yes, all us ex-jws know the org. I also know that a joint effort by all in washington will have a more profound effect than a bunch of EX- anythings marching on their old church. And I have no problem with a march on NY.
After all the fan fair there has been no media attnetion given to fridays march. I suggest, only suggest, that such groups are soon identified as disgruntled ex members with a vendetta against thier old religion. If such is the cae the media soon loses interest. If the focus is made by exes from all dif religions in a joint effort a greater impact can be had.
Please understand- March on NY all you want. No harm done. Public venting of hate toward the WT does harm the cause in the publics mind. It may help victims in recovery even to march on the WT. But if the real issue is to make changes- then that is where the points dragon and I are making are soming in. It is not a JW issue- it si an abuse issue. Making it a JW issue shortens the attention span for there few affected by the WT compared to the catholic church.
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What's with the media and the march
by Lady Lee inwhere are the reports.
what exactly happened when the media went into the doos of bethel.
were they threatened.
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kelsey007
Here goes another one of my contraversial post- Done in good humor with good intent though:
Is there any possibility that the media may have seen some of the "hate" aspect that is visible on these boards? If, and I do say IF, that is possible, the cause loses credibility and the media loses interest. If the media at any point came to these boards and read some of the comments posted here they may get the feel that silent lambs is nothing more than a bunch of disgruntled ex-jws- when my pic was run on the front page of the tennessean newspaper the reporter actually received calls from jw's stating such was the case with me-
If per chance any media read bowens post of how he squeeled his tires in front of the KH and revved up his loud mufflers- well just a thought... Now slam me for the thought LOL.
Edited by - kelsey007 on 29 September 2002 15:22:46
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Dearest Dragon & Kelsey
by BB inis there some purpose to be gained by attacking bill bowen and silentlambs?
do you honestly feel that bill bowen can be equated to the gb and is exercising his own form of brainwashing?
are his motives so disingenuous?
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kelsey007
I would like to set the record straight. Dragon and I do not know each other. We found that we both shared similar views and both are outspoken in those views.
I have seen many others on both boards that saw the same things as we have. Though we have been more expressive in sharing these views than most it is not an uncommon view.
One would hope that having drawn these things to light that people with the honest goal of aiding the victims and bringing such conduct to light would find a balance between their goals and the thoughts that both dragon and I have expressed.
If, however, our views- honest as they are- bring a jwish type response from silent lambs supporters it would only serve to prove that our points have validity -
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Dearest Dragon & Kelsey
by BB inis there some purpose to be gained by attacking bill bowen and silentlambs?
do you honestly feel that bill bowen can be equated to the gb and is exercising his own form of brainwashing?
are his motives so disingenuous?
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kelsey007
BB- These are certainly things and feelings that are honest from my perspective. I do believe that silent lambs has the makings of being a excellant vehicle for assisting abuse victims and exposing pediphiles. The concerns I expressed are genuine and certainly open for public debate. Not all will ever see eye to eye and as I stated in an earlieer post- I am doing nothing to aid more than expressing myself and my ideas on this board.
It is my sincere hope that any critisms expressed by me can be viewed and if there is any point that may prove valid such criticisms then can be viewed as constructive in nature. My heart goes out to all abuse victims. As I have stated before silent lambs is doing something- I still suggest however that approaching this from a legal avenue would bring more positive change to all vicitms of abuse in all religious organizations.
I am not a silent lambs fan nor a bill bowne fan. I am not a bowenite or a jw. I am a fan of justice and freedom. I am in agreement that "two wrongs do not make a right".
One of the freedoms that we all enjoy in this country is the freedom to freely express our views. Open discussion of views at some point brings balance. One of the downfalls of the jw organization is the restriction of such debate. One dare not express his or her opinion for fear of being labeled an apostate. In rightly raising questions as to the intent of silent lambs and certain conduct of the founder a debate was opened and the result was as stated.
My heart goes out to the victims and I would love to see silent lambs grow into a balanced effort to aid victims. I also would love to see such organizations band together to march on washington in a joint effort to gain legal tools to correct this prevalant conduct that exist in all walks of our society. I equally stand firmly against using such as a venue to bash or demolish any religious organiztion regardless of my personal feelings toward such organization.
Hate and anger is not a good motivator for accomplishing good. Focus is important and the cause should always be greater than the leader.
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Elders are subject to the authority of the WTS
by Elsewhere inthere was a thread that was asking for proof that the wts demands that the elders do what they say.
i found the following on quotes' site:*** pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock (1991) p.100-101 ***.
[click here to learn more about this lesser known book].
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kelsey007
I do remember congregations being disolved but do not know of any written info about them. I do know that when a congregation is formed or splits it must be approved by the WT.