Posts by shadow

61

Sophistry LessonsJW Baptismal Prerequisites

by AuldSoul in

(definition).

in this thread we will examine chapter 18 of the book what does the bible really teach?, entitled baptism and your relationship with god.. .

is there any scripture provided to support the statement?

shadow

— To make a dedication to Jehovah, you must disown yourself, even as people disowned themselves to follow Jesus.—Mark .

Consider : Is a specific dedication to Jehovah required prior to baptism according to the Bible? Is this "what the Bible teaches," or what the Governing Body teaches?

Shadow: What does it mean to be baptized in the name of the Father? If baptism is a commitment to follow Jesus, wouldn't that include a dedication to Jehovah?

My Scriptural argument that these steps are NOT required by the Bible is summed up in these verses: Acts -48; -15, 25-34

Shadow: I don't see that these references refute the need for some level of knowldege and a dedication to Jehovah.

Do you believe there are requirements for baptism? What do you believe is the purpose of baptism?

61

Sophistry LessonsJW Baptismal Prerequisites

by AuldSoul in

(definition).

in this thread we will examine chapter 18 of the book what does the bible really teach?, entitled baptism and your relationship with god.. .

is there any scripture provided to support the statement?

shadow

"— Steps leading to baptism begin with taking in knowledge and showing faith followed by repentance, conversion, and the dedicating of oneself to God.—John 17:3; Acts 3:19; 18:8.

Consider: Apart from repentance and conversion, does the Bible teach that any of the other steps are required leading to baptism? Is this "what the Bible teaches," or what the Governing Body teaches? "

Shadow: The other two points in this reference are knowledge and dedication. It seems self-evident that some level of knowledge would be required to be baptized or even have any desire to be baptized. For dedication, see below.

"— To make a dedication to Jehovah, you must disown yourself, even as people disowned themselves to follow Jesus.—Mark

61

Sophistry LessonsJW Baptismal Prerequisites

by AuldSoul in

(definition).

in this thread we will examine chapter 18 of the book what does the bible really teach?, entitled baptism and your relationship with god.. .

is there any scripture provided to support the statement?

shadow

I intended to reply to this as I stated to sak on another thread, however I do have a job and a family (otherwise known as a life).

How about breaking this down to smaller bites?

80

The real impact of "apostate" sites

by dozy in

in a recent discussion with a couple of district overseers and other heavies , the topic of the internet and apostate sites came up.

i asked what impact these were making , numerically , among jws.

the prevailing view was that , numerically , there was negligible impact.

shadow

Deleted after seeing Brandon's post

80

The real impact of "apostate" sites

by dozy in

in a recent discussion with a couple of district overseers and other heavies , the topic of the internet and apostate sites came up.

i asked what impact these were making , numerically , among jws.

the prevailing view was that , numerically , there was negligible impact.

shadow

sak, I'm a JW. What topics are you looking for the JW side on?

149

Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?

by listen in

not a society apologist!!

just wanting to know what you all think.

does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.

shadow

keo,

You don't have children do you?

Even if most elders are well-intentioned, they are simply not qualified to interview children about allegations of abuse. Don't you know that such children are extremely fragile and have a high likelihood of injuring themselves or committing suicide? Would you really want to subject your child to the unpredictable amateur interrogation of the elders? I was an elder until last year and I would not permit it.

My child was molested by a man who had a prior history of child abuse and yet was serving as an elder for part of the time he molested my child. He was appointed before the WT policy changed. He was removed when the policy was changed, though the reason for his removal was not made common knowledge. Of course, no apology from the WT nor any offer of financial assistance to care for the needs of my child. We have struggled through many sleepless nights and suicide watches which still have not gone away years later and will not for the foreseeable future.

WT policy does not care about these children. It's primary purpose is to protect the WT. A few years ago at a KM (elder's) school, a WT letter was read verbatim to the elders in attendance. It was preceded by the odd announcement that no discussion or questions would be permitted. Do you think this type of action is designed to help elders be more competent to help in these cases?

I'm still a JW and have been for forty years, but I find 3rd to be utterly contemptible.

149

Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?

by listen in

not a society apologist!!

just wanting to know what you all think.

does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.

shadow

Do you believe that elders are qualified to question or interview a child who has been sexually abused?
Only concerning their spiritual welfare and well being and to protect the flock. They are not professional pyschologists and some people should no doubt seek such professional help. Elders are only their to help spiritually and keep the congregation clean from child abusers.
Should the WT apologize to victims of elders known to have a history of child molestation when they were appointed?
If the WT knowingly put a practicing child molester in a position of responsibility of course they should apologize.
Should the Society offer any financial assistance to care for the needs of children abused by elders or MS?
NO, those elders or MS who comitted the crime of child molesting should pay. Should the WT pay for the other crimes that elders might do such as murder, stealing, etc? That would be absurd.
Should the Catholic Church offer any financial assistance to care for the needs of children abused by priests?
This is what the courts say about that. Yes, they should pay. So far 1.5 billion dollars because they reassign child molesters to different parts of the country unlike JWs who df practicing child molesters and never allow them to be servants. As for the WTS, the courts have awarded -137,000 dollars. Please see Boer Vs WT in the blog.

3rd,

If, as you admit, elders are not qualified to deal with child abuse victims, then why do they seek to do this in the context of a judicial committee meeting?

Are you a new JW? Do you know any elders that have been around for 10 or 15 years? You can find out for yourself that the WT policy changed concerning the appointment of child molestors. Ask them about the list requested by HQ for the names of all elders and servants who had a history of child molestation. This was done about the same time as the 97 article. This action makes it obvious that such men were not excluded from being appointed.

As for helping victims financially with therapy; " The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation". You would sacrifice caring for these children to keep the WT coffers full? You would only have a conscience if Caesar forced you to have one like they have forced the Catholic Church?

Do you really call yourself a Christian?

149

Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?

by listen in

not a society apologist!!

just wanting to know what you all think.

does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.

shadow

3rd,

Do you believe that elders are qualified to question or interview a child who has been sexually abused?

Should the WT apologize to victims of elders known to have a history of child molestation when they were appointed?

Should the Society offer any financial assistance to care for the needs of children abused by elders or MS?

Should the Catholic Church offer any financial assistance to care for the needs of children abused by priests?

42

Gerrit Loesch GB Speaker at KC convention

by stillajwexelder in

gerritt loesch was the gb speaker today at the kc convention - and what a boring old fart he was - i fell asleep and so did my wife

shadow

Loesch succeeded in getting a veiled comment about football (American) in the new book. One of the last chapters mentions a modern sport where the players wear armor like the ancient gladiators. I heard that he gave a talk at a DC in Nebraska condemning football. Not too well received by the Cornhuskers.

Does he approve of soccer and their zealous fans that riot when their team loses?

69

Just returned from the 2006 (Armageddon's here) "Deliverance At Hand" DO

by apocalypse in

how much can one person gag?

it is interesting to note that clive thomas (canadian branch office) spoke during his part in such a way as to betray the fact that he was personally aware that what he was saying was false.. it's one thing when a local onion gets exuberant about parroting the gb's nonsense.

it's quite another when a bloodsucker like clive comes from the branch and does a "bait 'n switch" the way he did.

shadow

Revolt in 2100?