Posts by shadow

80

The real impact of "apostate" sites

by dozy in

in a recent discussion with a couple of district overseers and other heavies , the topic of the internet and apostate sites came up.

i asked what impact these were making , numerically , among jws.

the prevailing view was that , numerically , there was negligible impact.

shadow

sak, I'm a JW. What topics are you looking for the JW side on?

149

Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?

by listen in

not a society apologist!!

just wanting to know what you all think.

does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.

Even if most elders are well-intentioned, they are simply not qualified to interview children about allegations of abuse. Don't you know that such children are extremely fragile and have a high likelihood of injuring themselves or committing suicide? Would you really want to subject your child to the unpredictable amateur interrogation of the elders? I was an elder until last year and I would not permit it.

My child was molested by a man who had a prior history of child abuse and yet was serving as an elder for part of the time he molested my child. He was appointed before the WT policy changed. He was removed when the policy was changed, though the reason for his removal was not made common knowledge. Of course, no apology from the WT nor any offer of financial assistance to care for the needs of my child. We have struggled through many sleepless nights and suicide watches which still have not gone away years later and will not for the foreseeable future.

WT policy does not care about these children. It's primary purpose is to protect the WT. A few years ago at a KM (elder's) school, a WT letter was read verbatim to the elders in attendance. It was preceded by the odd announcement that no discussion or questions would be permitted. Do you think this type of action is designed to help elders be more competent to help in these cases?

I'm still a JW and have been for forty years, but I find 3rd to be utterly contemptible.

149

Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?

by listen in

not a society apologist!!

just wanting to know what you all think.

does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.

shadow

Do you believe that elders are qualified to question or interview a child who has been sexually abused?
Only concerning their spiritual welfare and well being and to protect the flock. They are not professional pyschologists and some people should no doubt seek such professional help. Elders are only their to help spiritually and keep the congregation clean from child abusers.
Should the WT apologize to victims of elders known to have a history of child molestation when they were appointed?
If the WT knowingly put a practicing child molester in a position of responsibility of course they should apologize.
Should the Society offer any financial assistance to care for the needs of children abused by elders or MS?
NO, those elders or MS who comitted the crime of child molesting should pay. Should the WT pay for the other crimes that elders might do such as murder, stealing, etc? That would be absurd.
Should the Catholic Church offer any financial assistance to care for the needs of children abused by priests?
This is what the courts say about that. Yes, they should pay. So far 1.5 billion dollars because they reassign child molesters to different parts of the country unlike JWs who df practicing child molesters and never allow them to be servants. As for the WTS, the courts have awarded -137,000 dollars. Please see Boer Vs WT in the blog.

3rd,

If, as you admit, elders are not qualified to deal with child abuse victims, then why do they seek to do this in the context of a judicial committee meeting?

Are you a new JW? Do you know any elders that have been around for 10 or 15 years? You can find out for yourself that the WT policy changed concerning the appointment of child molestors. Ask them about the list requested by HQ for the names of all elders and servants who had a history of child molestation. This was done about the same time as the 97 article. This action makes it obvious that such men were not excluded from being appointed.

As for helping victims financially with therapy; " The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation". You would sacrifice caring for these children to keep the WT coffers full? You would only have a conscience if Caesar forced you to have one like they have forced the Catholic Church?

Do you really call yourself a Christian?

149

Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?

by listen in

not a society apologist!!

just wanting to know what you all think.

does this "sound" fair & balanced, you decide.

shadow

3rd,

Do you believe that elders are qualified to question or interview a child who has been sexually abused?

Should the WT apologize to victims of elders known to have a history of child molestation when they were appointed?

Should the Society offer any financial assistance to care for the needs of children abused by elders or MS?

Should the Catholic Church offer any financial assistance to care for the needs of children abused by priests?

42

Gerrit Loesch GB Speaker at KC convention

by stillajwexelder in

gerritt loesch was the gb speaker today at the kc convention - and what a boring old fart he was - i fell asleep and so did my wife

shadow

Loesch succeeded in getting a veiled comment about football (American) in the new book. One of the last chapters mentions a modern sport where the players wear armor like the ancient gladiators. I heard that he gave a talk at a DC in Nebraska condemning football. Not too well received by the Cornhuskers.

Does he approve of soccer and their zealous fans that riot when their team loses?

69

Just returned from the 2006 (Armageddon's here) "Deliverance At Hand" DO

by apocalypse in

how much can one person gag?

it is interesting to note that clive thomas (canadian branch office) spoke during his part in such a way as to betray the fact that he was personally aware that what he was saying was false.. it's one thing when a local onion gets exuberant about parroting the gb's nonsense.

it's quite another when a bloodsucker like clive comes from the branch and does a "bait 'n switch" the way he did.

shadow

Revolt in 2100?

12

"Never Trust a Bethelite"

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

i remember a long time ago hearing the phrase.

during my time as a witness i've known a few, and the amazing thing is that it really is quite true.

the two i really got to know both had problems, in fact they where much in the same personality wise.

shadow

Never trust a Jew, an arab or an apostate either. They're all alike too, don't you think?

51

Bethel Downsizing - Management Discussions

by core in

jw
friends

.

the spin on downsizing is apparently "go out into the field" yet when the gb initially considered this it must have been presented as a practical problem - too much surplus hr capacity/ too expensive to maintain - or whatever and yet they turned it into a positive matter by stressing the return to the field - all those in such discussions are clearly able to deceive themselves as much as they try and deceive the "flock" - what do you think - did a discussion on a practical problem have to have a positive outcome and how did they twist their minds so as to sell it as such - for years they begged people to stay in bethel service (make it your home for life) and now they cast them out into the world with the thin veneer of "speedin g up the preaching work .. etc".

all those at the top must have been involved in turning this huge embarrasment (jehovah will provide etc) into a positive spin - they should try out for a marketing award "downsizing - the only way to grow!

shadow

In the interests of combating ignorance . . .

http://www.drexel.edu/IRT/SAP/about.html

About SAP

SAP offers companies a comprehensive solution for managing financials, human resources, operations, and corporate services -- providing the most comprehensive ERP product available today. It attempts to integrate all departments and functions across a company onto a single computer system that can serve all those different departments' particular needs.

Facts about SAP

Founded by five former IBM employees in 1972 and headquartered in
Leading global provider of client/server business software solutions.
Number one vendor of standard business application software, with a worldwide market share of 31%.
Fourth-largest independent software supplier in the world.
Available in 14 languages.
34% of SAP's customers worldwide are under $200 million.
10 out of the top 10 companies with the highest market value use SAP software.
8 of the top 10 largest corporations use SAP software.
8 of the top 10 highest profit companies use SAP software.
More than 7500 customers in over 90 countries have chosen SAP.
Reported revenues of DM 6 billion in the most recent fiscal year, a 62-percent increase over 1996 revenues.

SAP Products

SAP products empower companies of all sizes and all industry sectors to respond quickly and decisively to dynamic market conditions, helping businesses achieve and maintain a competitive advantage. Its strategic product architecture links all areas of an enterprise. Crucial to making sure that SAP products, your legacy systems, and third-party products all work together as seamlessly as possible are the development of open interfaces to link disparate systems and provide enormous scalability and flexibility. SAP, in collaboration with its hundreds of complementary software partners and world-class hardware providers, has created this program to ensure the use of its standard implementation methodologies; and realize the solution in an accelerated time frame at least cost to the customer.

11

the 5/14/06 watchtower study

by buffalosrfree in

jw
friends

i was watching my wife study the watchtower saturday and sunday morn before leaving for the hall, she had a couple of questions about the ethiopian enuch (spelling) and phillip.

i asked her honey, think a second are you able to read a book or mag while driving in the car on faily good roads, and of course her answer was no.

why i asked she said its too hard to, the bumping the movement of the car/truck etc throws the words off all the time.

shadow

1. The chariot wasn't going too fast, Philip was able to keep up on foot and even start a conversation.

2. The type of road is not mentioned, maybe it was dirt. I've driven a car on dirt roads at 50 mph and had a very smooth ride.

The points made here seem to be full of assumptions and quite ridiculous.

7

Bribes and WTS----HELP

by Tea4Two in

.

i remember reading years ago in the watch tower or the awake that it was ok to give a bribe if it was the custom in that particular country.......i don't have the cd rom to search for the article....can anyone here help me out?

shadow

*** w86 10/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***

Questions

From Readers

?

How can a Christian distinguish between bribing (condemned in the Bible) and giving a "tip" or "gift" for a service rendered?

We need to appreciate that practices differ from area to area. Ways that are accepted in some lands would be offensive or improper elsewhere. For example, people in one country may bow before an official, but in another land that would be viewed as idolatry. Similarly, a "tipping" practice accepted in one land might be shocking or illegal in another. While bearing such differences in mind, all Christians should apply God’s counsel against bribery.

What is bribery, and what does the Bible say about it? The World Book Encyclopedia explains: "Bribery means giving or offering something of value to a person in a position of trust, who in return violates his or her duty or the law in order to benefit the giver." Thus it is bribery to give money (or a gift) to a judge to influence his decision and pervert justice. It is also bribery to offer money so as to circumvent the law, such as asking a building or automobile inspector to ignore a violation.

God condemns bribery, telling Israelite judges: "You must not pervert judgment. You must not be partial or accept a bribe, for the bribe blinds the eyes of wise ones and distorts the words of righteous ones." (Deuteronomy 16:19; compare Proverbs 17:23; Isaiah 1:23; 5:23; 1 Samuel 8:3-5.) Jehovah himself sets the standard, for with him "there is no unrighteousness or partiality or taking of a bribe." (2 Chronicles 19:7; Deuteronomy 10:17) Christians desiring God’s approval refuse to resort to bribery.—Compare Acts 24:26.

While men worldwide denounce and have laws against bribery, many people face the problem reflected in the above question. They know that it takes a "gift" or "tip" to get minor officials in their land to do their job or to do it fairly. For instance, The Wall Street Journal said about a land rife with inflation: "To obtain the extra cash needed to get by, government workers resort to petty corruption. ‘You have to pay them to hand you any kind of form,’ says the head of a state agency. Meanwhile, immigration officials badger bewildered foreign tourists at the international airport for $20 to stamp their passports so the travelers don’t miss their planes."

Recently, U.S.News & World Report commented on bureaucratic delays and resulting payoffs that are common around the world. For instance, it said: "An Indian these days must slip money to an official on the side to enroll a child in school, to gain admittance to a hospital, even to secure reservations on a train." Other illustrations of this include:

—A tradesman needs a permit before he can work. He pays the official fee at the government office, yet everyone knows that without a "gift" his papers will be kept on the bottom of the pile. While he is not asking to be put ahead of others, if he gives the normal "tip," his paper will be properly handled.

—In a certain land, people know that traffic officers get low pay and are expected to add to it with "gifts for refreshments." An officer stops a driver and says that a law was broken, so the man must pay a fine. When the driver protests that he broke no law, the officer warns that if the matter goes to court, he will charge the man also with assaulting an officer. Thus, many simply pay the "fine," viewing it as unofficial taxation. Others refuse, being willing to take the consequences.

—A municipality is supposed to provide garbage collection. But it is normal for a householder to give the garbagemen a "gift." If someone does not, his trash is "forgotten," and he is liable to be fined for unsanitary conditions.

Such problems show that many in authority use their government post for unjust profit. (Ecclesiastes 8:9) Christians long for God’s righteous new system, but until then they must cope with the present system. (2 Peter 3:13) This may mean recognizing local situations wherein public servants expect gifts for performing their job. Even in lands where such is normal, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses who deal with inspectors and customs officials have declined to give "tips" to obtain what the law entitles them to. Because they are known for this stand, they receive treatment that most people get only through a payment. (Proverbs 10:9) However, each Christian must be guided by his Bible-educated conscience according to the local situation.

Love for neighbor is a factor to consider. (Matthew 22:39) It would be unloving to use a "gift" to get preferred treatment, such as being moved to the head of a line, bypassing those who were waiting. Jesus counseled us to treat others as we want to be treated. (Matthew 7:12) Some Christians may feel that as their turn in line comes, they can comply with the practice of the land to give a "gift" to get an official to do what his job requires. Of course, in lands where such "gifts" are not customary or they are shocking to public sensibilities, the loving Christian will act in a way that does not stumble others.—1 Corinthians 10:31-33.

Another factor is obedience to law. Jesus urged: "Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God." (Mark 12:17; see also Matthew 17:24-27.) It is one thing if a Christian who has not broken the law is expected to "tip" a government employee or other official. But what if a Christian actually had violated the law? In that case, how could he in good conscience offer a bribe to induce an officer to ignore the violation? The apostle Paul wrote that we should fear governmental superior authorities, who are empowered "to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad." (Romans 13:3, 4) Paul’s own position was: If he did wrong, he would accept the appropriate punishment. (Acts 25:10, 11) Thus, a Christian who violated a traffic law might have to pay a fine or fee, as directed by an officer or a judge.

Paul also said that governments are ‘ministers to you for your good.’ Despite the greed of some officials, governments do provide services for the public good. For instance, officials inspect automobiles as to their roadworthiness, and they examine whether buildings are in compliance with fire codes. Therefore, if a Christian felt that, within the law, he could "tip" an official who expected a "service fee," it is evident that this is quite different from bribing an inspector to ignore violations of the law.

In whatever land they live, Christians should exercise practical wisdom in dealing with local situations. God’s servants should remember that those who ‘will be guests in God’s tent and reside in his holy mountain’ cannot resort to bribery. (Psalm 15:1, 5) With regard to giving "tips" to receive rightfully due services or to avoid unfair treatment by officials, a Christian must decide what his conscience permits and bear responsibility for any resulting complications. He certainly should pursue a course that leaves him with a good conscience personally and that does not sully the good name of Christianity or stumble observers.—2 Corinthians 6:3.