And it's not fair to try the officer on the basis of how you view the culture. If you have a problem with the culture then be a proponent if change. Try the officer on the merits of the evidence Of this case and this case alone.
TheSilence
JoinedPosts by TheSilence
-
254
Michael Brown verdict discussion policy
by Simon init's likely that the grand jury verdict on the michael brown incident will be released in the coming days or weeks.. i've no doubt many people are going to feel strongly about things whatever the verdict is.. whatever the outcome though, here's what's not going to happen:.
we're not going to put up with inflamatory language and comments designed to rile others up.
be respectful.. we will not allow accusations of racism simply because some have a view of the verdict that contradicts others.. there will not be invented evidence or claims being repeated - if it's been falsely reported or debunked then it's off limits.. it's not going to be an opportunity for people to air past gripes over past discussions.. if you feel that you cannot discuss the subject in a rational way then it may be better to simply avoid any topics on the matter.. please try to be objective and respectful if you do decide to comment and not keen to take offense.
-
-
-
254
Michael Brown verdict discussion policy
by Simon init's likely that the grand jury verdict on the michael brown incident will be released in the coming days or weeks.. i've no doubt many people are going to feel strongly about things whatever the verdict is.. whatever the outcome though, here's what's not going to happen:.
we're not going to put up with inflamatory language and comments designed to rile others up.
be respectful.. we will not allow accusations of racism simply because some have a view of the verdict that contradicts others.. there will not be invented evidence or claims being repeated - if it's been falsely reported or debunked then it's off limits.. it's not going to be an opportunity for people to air past gripes over past discussions.. if you feel that you cannot discuss the subject in a rational way then it may be better to simply avoid any topics on the matter.. please try to be objective and respectful if you do decide to comment and not keen to take offense.
-
-
TheSilence
Is the something wrong in the way the officers are trained and handling it or is the something wrong in how brazen people in this country are with the police? Understand I'm not a proponent of police brutality, this really is an honest question on my part. I see wrong on both sides in different situations. I tend to take things case by case because I truly believe there are good cops and there are hotheads. And I truly believe most people have sense enough not to grab for a cops gun but that there are still those who will if they think they can. I look at it case by case. If you look at the overall picture I think the police could do better *and* the populace could do better in taking personal responsibility and being respectful. Case by case, though, if the evidence supports officer Wilson's version of events then I don't care how old michael was, he bears personal responsibility for getting himself shot and I don't find the officer at fault.
-
254
Michael Brown verdict discussion policy
by Simon init's likely that the grand jury verdict on the michael brown incident will be released in the coming days or weeks.. i've no doubt many people are going to feel strongly about things whatever the verdict is.. whatever the outcome though, here's what's not going to happen:.
we're not going to put up with inflamatory language and comments designed to rile others up.
be respectful.. we will not allow accusations of racism simply because some have a view of the verdict that contradicts others.. there will not be invented evidence or claims being repeated - if it's been falsely reported or debunked then it's off limits.. it's not going to be an opportunity for people to air past gripes over past discussions.. if you feel that you cannot discuss the subject in a rational way then it may be better to simply avoid any topics on the matter.. please try to be objective and respectful if you do decide to comment and not keen to take offense.
-
-
TheSilence
Do you know that he didnt call for another car? I thought what Sammie posted indicated he did. I'm sorry, I guess he allegedly did. but if I don't know that he did then you don't know that he didn't.
Do you know that he had a loudspeaker available? Or that if he did he didn't use it? He allegedly told Michael to get out of the street but do you know how?
Just talk to the young guy for a while? Were you there? Do you know that he didn't try?
It's easy to second guess after the fact. Were there other options? Probably. Does that make it the officers fault? No. Even if we assume that the officer should have done all those things it does not justify someone attempting to seize his gun. If that's what the facts support then, guess what, Michael had other options as well. So, yes, I am still okay with it even if I think it was a tragic outcome.
-
254
Michael Brown verdict discussion policy
by Simon init's likely that the grand jury verdict on the michael brown incident will be released in the coming days or weeks.. i've no doubt many people are going to feel strongly about things whatever the verdict is.. whatever the outcome though, here's what's not going to happen:.
we're not going to put up with inflamatory language and comments designed to rile others up.
be respectful.. we will not allow accusations of racism simply because some have a view of the verdict that contradicts others.. there will not be invented evidence or claims being repeated - if it's been falsely reported or debunked then it's off limits.. it's not going to be an opportunity for people to air past gripes over past discussions.. if you feel that you cannot discuss the subject in a rational way then it may be better to simply avoid any topics on the matter.. please try to be objective and respectful if you do decide to comment and not keen to take offense.
-
-
TheSilence
Does it matter? 2 points on this silliness of boy vs man:
1. It does not matter how old he was, if his age is an issue to you then it matters how old he appeared. It's not like the police in such a situation have time to say 'hold on, before we continue can I check your ID for age before I determine if I'm allowed to use deadly force. Once I see it and know all the parameters we can continue where we left off'. What the officer saw was a male of a large enough size to not only be considered a man on sight but also a threat if threatening behavior or language are used.
2. I don't care if a 'boy' is 18 or 10. If he's big enough to pose a threat and uses his size to try to seize an officer's gun I expect him to get shot. If the officer's version of events is supported by evidence you can call him a boy or a man or a toddler, whatever you think makes it sound more tragic. I'm still okay with someone of that size attempting to take an officer's gun getting shot no matter if he is a man or a boy.
-
47
preface question:
by mohrb inorder of operations is important, so, i'll ask a question before i make assumptions and start "fixing things.".
obviously, the site heavily encourages the viewpoint of former j-dubs and others who have disagreements with the political posturing of the wbts.
i get that, and see your points.
-
-
TheSilence
Go read the very first posts from when the site started. :)
-
229
Ferguson Shooting (Is my thinking on this all wrong.......)
by out4good3 ini think everyone here can agree that walking down the street, even in the middle of the street, is not cause for having a clip emptied in your ass......... i can understand how the black community would be outraged by the injustice of seeing another black man dead in the street at the hands of the police under mysterious circumstances....... i hope that i'm not succumbing to the attempts to assinate the already well impuned character of the dead man...... however.
i can't help but think that this could all have been avoided by exercising the proper discretion with fore-knowledge of the disadvantages people of color have when they are dealing with law enforcement in the united states.
it is not as if this disadvantage has only since recently came to light.
-
-
TheSilence
Jackie, I was not addressing YOU personally. Simply the "poltics" or point of view expressed in your post. I certainly do not mean to "mischaracterize" you on an individual basis.
I suppose I was confused by you quoting my words and replying to them with an address to "you" in all capital letters?
may I ask then what actions you have taken personally to change the "status quo" (if you are not okay allowing it)
I have held my niece in my arms and comforted her when she was young and called offensive things, when stereotypes have been used against her. I'm a strong person in most things and there is little anyone can do to me that touches me personally because I am very much of the opinion that other people's issues are their issues unless I choose to own them. But you touch my nieces and nephews and my heart aches. I have talked to school administrators and authorities about change. I advocate change with my votes and political support. And most of all I am an advocate, shoulder to lean on, and support system for those I love. I stand for equality with my words and actions in life. And I stand up for what I believe in... even when I generally lean liberal but in this instance I look at the facts and see that Michael Brown was a criminal and there needs to be some personal responsibility for the outcome of his life. Even when I generally lean liberal but think that claims that Ferguson should be burned to the ground based on mis-represented media attention to the facts is offensive and wrong and that there are better avenues to pursue for positive change.
I'm going out to lunch or I would respond more.
Best,
Jackie
-
229
Ferguson Shooting (Is my thinking on this all wrong.......)
by out4good3 ini think everyone here can agree that walking down the street, even in the middle of the street, is not cause for having a clip emptied in your ass......... i can understand how the black community would be outraged by the injustice of seeing another black man dead in the street at the hands of the police under mysterious circumstances....... i hope that i'm not succumbing to the attempts to assinate the already well impuned character of the dead man...... however.
i can't help but think that this could all have been avoided by exercising the proper discretion with fore-knowledge of the disadvantages people of color have when they are dealing with law enforcement in the united states.
it is not as if this disadvantage has only since recently came to light.
-
-
TheSilence
Do you think the disadvantaged and abused "victims" of the system like those in Ferguson
You also seem to have missed the point that the vast majority of people in Ferguson who advocate for change are calling for *peaceful* protesting because it is their neighborhood and they don't want to have to deal with the loss of tax base and rising insurance rates. The vast majority of those arrested for looting and rioting, for destruction of property, etc. are not from Ferguson but from outlying areas. Most even out of town or out of state. These victims of Ferguson's system that you think I don't care about also do not want Ferguson burned to the ground.
-
229
Ferguson Shooting (Is my thinking on this all wrong.......)
by out4good3 ini think everyone here can agree that walking down the street, even in the middle of the street, is not cause for having a clip emptied in your ass......... i can understand how the black community would be outraged by the injustice of seeing another black man dead in the street at the hands of the police under mysterious circumstances....... i hope that i'm not succumbing to the attempts to assinate the already well impuned character of the dead man...... however.
i can't help but think that this could all have been avoided by exercising the proper discretion with fore-knowledge of the disadvantages people of color have when they are dealing with law enforcement in the united states.
it is not as if this disadvantage has only since recently came to light.
-
-
TheSilence
Do you think the disadvantaged and abused "victims" of the system like those in Ferguson give a shit about your tax base or insurance rates. Not a bit more than you give a shit about the fact that they are being abused by the system and yet you are OK to allowing the system to continue in a status quo because YOU have not personally been affected.
I think you are missing the point that the tax base and insurance rates hurt the abused victims of the system that these acts are claiming to support rather than help them. And you have completely mischarcterised me to assume that I am okay allowing the system to continue in a status quo just because I do not think burning Ferguson to the ground is a helpful act or one that should be supported in any way. Nor am I aware of any personal knowledge you might have of me to be able to claim with any level of certainty that I have not personally been affected. You are making a lot of assumptions about me based on the fact that I find a statement that Ferguson should be burned to the ground offensive and counter-productive.
Best,
Jackie
-
229
Ferguson Shooting (Is my thinking on this all wrong.......)
by out4good3 ini think everyone here can agree that walking down the street, even in the middle of the street, is not cause for having a clip emptied in your ass......... i can understand how the black community would be outraged by the injustice of seeing another black man dead in the street at the hands of the police under mysterious circumstances....... i hope that i'm not succumbing to the attempts to assinate the already well impuned character of the dead man...... however.
i can't help but think that this could all have been avoided by exercising the proper discretion with fore-knowledge of the disadvantages people of color have when they are dealing with law enforcement in the united states.
it is not as if this disadvantage has only since recently came to light.
-
-
TheSilence
If the cop is not indicted, I suspect they'll burn down Ferguson and much of St Louis. And they should.
As someone who lives 6 miles from the Ferguson protests I would just like to say how offensive and short-sighted this is. Burning down Ferguson will not change the facts. What it will do is destroy the community that those doing the burning are claiming to stand up for. Already the QT that was burned to the ground has said it will not rebuild. And why would another business come in to replace it? Less business in the area means less tax revenue for the area, fewer jobs in the area which means longer commutes to jobs creating more commuting costs for the community and less time spent with family. Property values have also dropped which means these families now have less equity in their homes. It is speculated that insurance rates will be increasing for the area so not only are their homes worth less but they will cost more to insure along with any other items of value they own.
The media coverage locally vs. nationally is astounding in its difference to me. The national media I've seen has been largely one-sided whereas locally it has seemed to show more of both sides. I work overnight at a casino where there are television screens everywhere you look. The night of the first riot I was at work and I watched the entire thing go down, not just clips that were sensationalised and therefore chosen as snippets for a story. The police did not start this mess. They were reacting to a good community being torn apart. Were there mistakes made? I'm sure. Let me ask, in the same situation, even with training, watching people you have sworn to protect and serve have their community burned and looted, never having had to deal with anything of that level, can you say you and your team would have handled the situation 100% perfectly? I can't even say with any degree of certainty there is a 100% perfect way to handle a situation like that let alone that I would have the presense of mind to do so.
The vast majority of those looting and rioting are not even from Ferguson, or even the St. Louis area. People taking advantage of a situation have come in from out of down... even as far as Dallas and New York City. Those from Ferguson who feel a need to protest are generally doing so peacefully. And not everyone feels the same. Especially as more facts come out you see more division. Of those I know and deal with who live in Ferguson I would say originally it was about 50/50 of those who supported Brown/Wilson. As more facts have come out I have seen that swing more towards support for Officer Wilson. So please don't paint all of Ferguson with this same brush of feeling that racial tensions abound between themselves and police in their community just because those are the only ones the media shows you. Some feel that way, some do not. I would imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
As someone who has lived near Ferguson, shopped there, walked down the streets, visited friends and family who live there... it's a good community. There is a push right now to support Ferguson by stopping to support the local businesses there, to try to help bring back some of the business they've lost over this whole debacle. Rather than crying "burn it to the ground if Wilson goes free" I find this to be a much more helpful and forward moving act of support for the community overall and what they are having to deal with right now.
I am a generally tolerant person. Whatever you decide to think of Ferguson is, of course, your right and I will support your right. My tolerance does not go so far as to think it is okay for you to support the burning to the ground of a good community that is close to home, where I have friends and family, where my employees live and try to raise their families. It is not the impoverished community the national media has painted where racism and crime abound. It is a beautiful community where normal people live normal lives with all the love and pain that goes with that. And I would far sooner prefer to see someone who supported the burning down of not just a community but of the lives of those who live there indicted than an officer who killed a criminal in the course of his job.
Are there racial tensions? Yes, everywhere to some degree. Stand up against that peacefully without using a criminal as your poster boy and I am behind your movement. Your words, sir, I will never be behind.
Best,
Jackie
-
699
A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?
by palmtree67 inricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.
"there are good atheists and bad atheists.
there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".
-
-
TheSilence
He registered about 6 months ago and never got a verification in his email. He checked his spam folder, too. :::chuckling::: He's been after me to pester you but I figured you guys have a million other things to worry about than his little account registration. ;)