Posts by Chap

24

Prove It!

by Chap in

as far as i know, most people believe there was nothing, then it happened, then there was something, which still exists today.

is what most people believe possible?

is the truth able to be determined logically?

Chap

If you don't have enough to think about or are not confused enough, I have the following to throw in.

Who is Jesus Christ?

Was he just a good teacher? A good man? The founder of another religion? It is recorded that he said John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (KJV)

Those two words I underlined say this. Jesus claimed to be the always existing God. The Jews understood this. That is why they tried to stone him because they thought he blasphemed. People who say that Jesus never claimed to be God do not understand what the Bible says.

How about this one:

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (KJV) underlining mine

Mohammad claimed to be God's only prophet and lots of people who founded religions said they are the official spokesmen of God, but did anyone speak like it is recorded how Jesus spoke? Jesus said "I am the truth". If you stop for a minute to contemplate what that means, you may understand better the initial post of this thread.

I can tell the truth but when someone claims to be "the truth", isn't he claiming to be all of reality or all that exists? This person is one of only two possibilities; God or "The Lie". Let me put it this way, if Jesus is not God or all that exists, he could only be the worst scum to ever walk the planet. I see no middle ground here. If Jesus is not God, he caused a whole lot of people to change their lifestyles in hope of eternal life for absolutely nothing. He also caused many people to worship a false god if in fact he is not God.

One thing I do not understand. Why haven't I gotten a knock on my door from a Jew who is trying to convince people that Jesus was not their Messiah and definately not God. Aren't they supposed to love their neighbors too? We can see from biblical history what happened to the Jewish people when they broke their first commandment which is: Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (KJV)

This should give you something to think about and I'm sure I'll get a lot of feedback from this.

24

Prove It!

by Chap in

as far as i know, most people believe there was nothing, then it happened, then there was something, which still exists today.

is what most people believe possible?

is the truth able to be determined logically?

Chap

Abaddon:

I haven't picked up a Physics textbook since high school. But from what I remember, solid objects are not really solid but the atoms that make up a solid are in constant motion. That isn't the point of what I am saying in this thread. If you read my first post, I do not say that God came from nothing. God, to which I refer to as "It is" (which is the third person of "I am" in the Bible) always has existed, exists now, and always will exist.

Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (KJV)

Farkel, I will deal with your comments a little later but I first want to add another bit of confusion since you say I am purposely trying to confuse people. (We all know there is no authority higher than Farkel)

172

Evolution or Creation??

by dottie in

well i know i may be opening a can of worms here.... but after what we were taught in the wts about creation...and now that you may know more about evolution... which do you think you'd choose to believe more??.

myself...i am leaning towards evolution...but then i read things that make me think otherwise.

so i do find it confusing sometimes .

Chap

Rem:

I started a new topic called "Prove It!" The link is in my next to last post in this thread. (5 or 6 posts back) I basically assert the same thing crownboy ridicules here. My point is that a first cause would violate physical laws unless the first cause always existed (always exists) and contains all physical laws. The supposition that an always existing God is powerless to do anything by the mere fact that he always exists is an interesting concept though. I wouldn't argue it with God.

24

Prove It!

by Chap in

as far as i know, most people believe there was nothing, then it happened, then there was something, which still exists today.

is what most people believe possible?

is the truth able to be determined logically?

Chap

SYN:

What I attempted to say was that the universe was created by God along with humanity. God always exists so in him contains all physical laws.

172

Evolution or Creation??

by dottie in

well i know i may be opening a can of worms here.... but after what we were taught in the wts about creation...and now that you may know more about evolution... which do you think you'd choose to believe more??.

myself...i am leaning towards evolution...but then i read things that make me think otherwise.

so i do find it confusing sometimes .

Chap

Rem:

Supposing there is not an always existing agent in which contains all physical laws. One day something appears from nothing. How did physical laws come into being?

24

Prove It!

by Chap in

as far as i know, most people believe there was nothing, then it happened, then there was something, which still exists today.

is what most people believe possible?

is the truth able to be determined logically?

Chap

Abaddon said:

First off you haven't even defined 'nothing'.

Ok, I'll define nothing for those who couldn't gather what I meant by what I wrote.Webster's New World Compact School and Office Dictionary

Nothing: 1. no thing; not anything

When one pours a beer into a glass, he is not putting beer into nothing, he is displacing the air in the glass with beer. Does this make sense, Outlaw?

Define place

Place: 9. a particular spot, part, position etc.

If I occupy a particular spot, someone or something else cannot occupy that same spot without first moving me from the said spot.

Even if we tighten the definition, or actually give definitions to the terms you are using, such as 'two solid objects comprised of matter cannot occupy identical Euclidian time-space co-ordinates at the same time', it doesn't allow you to make the second part (in red) of that statement with any assurance, as you've not proven it.

First of all, I have never seen nothing. But I'll watch my nightstand and let you know if anything appears on it that no one has put there. (Don't hold your breath)

No, I haven't proven the existence of God. All I did was to state what the God "I am" in the Bible is. God proves himself by what he created. However, it takes more faith to believe that we came from nothing because that violates scientific laws.

172

Evolution or Creation??

by dottie in

well i know i may be opening a can of worms here.... but after what we were taught in the wts about creation...and now that you may know more about evolution... which do you think you'd choose to believe more??.

myself...i am leaning towards evolution...but then i read things that make me think otherwise.

so i do find it confusing sometimes .

Chap

rem said:

Here are some things that would be impossible with your interpretation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics:
Drawing a straight line
Weather
Reproduction
Life
Building a house
Discussing this on the Internet

I will use the cause and effect argument as regards to life. Since non life cannot cause life because life is greater than non life, life must have always existed. I started a new topic because I think my discussion of God in this manner is off topic.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/48940/1.ashx

24

Prove It!

by Chap in

as far as i know, most people believe there was nothing, then it happened, then there was something, which still exists today.

is what most people believe possible?

is the truth able to be determined logically?

Chap

The last post I made is what I believe. I do not believe I am contradicting the Bible. Maybe there are Bible students that will say that I am wrong. These beliefs in my last post also explain why I do not believe in evolution.

24

Prove It!

by Chap in

as far as i know, most people believe there was nothing, then it happened, then there was something, which still exists today.

is what most people believe possible?

is the truth able to be determined logically?

Chap

As far as I know, most people believe there was nothing, then it happened, then there was something, which still exists today. Is what most people believe possible? Is the truth able to be determined logically?

Let us first examine nothing. If there is nothing, it must exist forever because a boundary would be something other than nothing. If two things cannot exist at the same time in the same place, than nothing cannot exist with or create something. If an affect cannot be greater than its cause, than nothing cannot cause something. Nothing an infinite amount of times is still nothing.

Now let us examine something. If it is possible for nothing to exist forever, than it also must be possible for something to exist forever. If two things cannot exist at the same time in the same place, than something cannot exist with nothing. If a cause must be greater than or equal to its affect, than something cannot cause nothing. Something an infinite amount of times is still something.

Something exists, therefore I humbly assert that “nothing” as the term is commonly known, does not exist, has never existed, and will never exist. The question is, what is something? Something can only be confined to what “It is”.

Since “It is” cannot also be “It is not”, than in human terms, “It is” cannot lie. “It is” cannot be both life and death, both good and evil, both light and dark or both intelligent and stupid. Since an affect cannot be greater than its cause, “It is” must be life, good, light, and intelligent. “It is” time, therefore when we move through time, we are moving through “It”. “It is” whatever it says it is. Anyone who says something contrary to what “It is” is not telling the truth. Anyone who disagrees with “It” is wrong.

172

Evolution or Creation??

by dottie in

well i know i may be opening a can of worms here.... but after what we were taught in the wts about creation...and now that you may know more about evolution... which do you think you'd choose to believe more??.

myself...i am leaning towards evolution...but then i read things that make me think otherwise.

so i do find it confusing sometimes .

Chap

funkyderek said:

The earth is simply not a closed system from a thermodynamic perspective. If it was, it's temperature would constantly decrease until it reached the temperature of the universe around it (about 3K). Don't worry, in the long term it will, but not before allowing a lot of interesting things to happen here.

The above statement seems contradictory. I guess in the short term, since the earth receives energy from the sun, it is an open system. But since the earth is part of the universe which is a closed system, it is part of a closed system. Therefore, the entropy of earth is both increasing and decreasing? Am I the only one that sees a problem with this? What about the entropy of the other planets which receive energy from a sun? I guess we can say the entropy is increasing because we don't have to explain anything away.

Sorry about the delayed response but I only have time to visit this forum about once or twice a week.