Rem,
Please, I was pointing out in that passage in Zechariah that Jehovah says He was pierced. I never said it was a prophecy of the Messiah.
SwedishChef
JoinedPosts by SwedishChef
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106
How do I know the Bible is True?
by SwedishChef inhow do i know the bible is true?
by thomas schaff.
external evidence.
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106
How do I know the Bible is True?
by SwedishChef inhow do i know the bible is true?
by thomas schaff.
external evidence.
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SwedishChef
Stan Corey,
Concerning Genesis 30:37-39, it is obvious in this passage that there is some spiritual significance. Often God works with pictures in the Old Testament to reveal a truth. But if you are going to pick on this verse, why not pick on Moses parting the Red Sea? or Jonah getting swallowed by a whale (or some other "great fish) and laying in its belly for three days? Or Moses striking a rock and water gushing out? These are all pictures, they all happened for a specific purpose.
To the biblical God, a bat is just an another unclean bird. But I seem to remember learning that a bat is a mammal when I was 5 years old!!
I'm sure this arguement will carry a lot of weight when you stand before the Lord some day. "Well, Lord, I would have believed, but you classified birds and bats together." As some may realize, animal classifications weren't the same 3,500 years ago.
Rem,
If you choose not to see the strong similarities between what is written in Psalm 22 and Jesus' execution, there's nothing I can do about it. There is so much in that chapter I could go over, but I doubt it will make any difference at all. You just can't admit it.
You said concerning verse 16, "This sounds like a man being hunted down by a pack of dogs and being bitten by them."
Just in case you didn't know, Rem. Crucifixion ivolved nailing one's hands and feet to a cross. Why did David specifically mention his hands and feet?
Here is another verse which mentions piercing.
Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
Hundreds of years before His birth, the Bible had already predicted (among other things) that Jesus would be pierced. Also read Isiaha 53.
And if you want to get in a debate over the preservation of the Old Testament, perhaps our next discussion will be over the dead sea scrolls. -
106
How do I know the Bible is True?
by SwedishChef inhow do i know the bible is true?
by thomas schaff.
external evidence.
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SwedishChef
Donkey,
Ever hear of Josephus? -
106
How do I know the Bible is True?
by SwedishChef inhow do i know the bible is true?
by thomas schaff.
external evidence.
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SwedishChef
One of my favorite passages in the Bible is Psalms 22, which is a prophecy about Jesus Christ.
Psalms 22:
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?(1) why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
(2) He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: (3) they pierced my hands and my feet.I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
(4) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
1. Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
2. Luke 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
3. Matthew 27:22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
4. Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots. -
106
How do I know the Bible is True?
by SwedishChef inhow do i know the bible is true?
by thomas schaff.
external evidence.
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SwedishChef
Hello Analysis,
Thank you for your response.
You said "If the Hebrew word for circle could be translated into sphere, I think modern translations would do just that. The problem is that it really means circle, not sphere."
If I'm not mistaken, there was no Hebrew word for "sphere". "Circle" is just about the best word that could have been used.
God told Josiah in 2 Kings 22:20 that he would die and be buried in Peace. In 2 Kings Chapter 23, it clearly shows he died at the hands of Pharaoh Neco when Josiah marched out with his army in battle.
Background and life of Josiah:
The son of Amon, and his successor on the throne of Judah (2 Kings 22:1; 2 Chr. 34:1). His history is contained in 2 Kings 22, 23. He stands foremost among all the kings of the line of David for unswerving loyalty to Jehovah (23:25). He "did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, and walked in all the way of David his father." He ascended the throne at the early age of eight years, and it appears that not till eight years afterwards did he begin "to seek after the God of David his father." At that age he devoted himself to God. He distinguished himself by beginning a war of extermination against the prevailing idolatry, which had practically been the state religion for some seventy years (2 Chr. 34:3; comp. Jer. 25:3, 11, 29).
In the eighteenth year of his reign he proceeded to repair and beautify the temple, which by time and violence had become sorely dilapidated (2 Kings 22:3, 5, 6; 23:23; 2 Chr. 34:11). While this work was being carried on, Hilkiah, the high priest, discovered a roll, which was probably the original copy of the law, the entire Pentateuch, written by Moses.
When this book was read to him, the king was alarmed by the things it contained, and sent for Huldah, the "prophetess," for her counsel. She spoke to him words of encouragement, telling him that he would be gathered to his fathers in peace before the threatened days of judgment came. Josiah immediately gathered the people together, and engaged them in a renewal of their ancient national covenant with God. The Passover was then celebrated, as in the days of his great predecessor, Hezekiah, with unusual magnificence. Nevertheless, "the Lord turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath wherewith his anger was kindled against Judah" (2 Kings 22:3-20; 23:21-27; 2 Chr. 35:1-19). During the progress of this great religious revolution Jeremiah helped it on by his earnest exhortations.
Soon after this, Pharaoh-Necho II. (q.v.), king of Egypt, in an expedition against the king of Assyria, with the view of gaining possession of Carchemish, sought a passage through the territory of Judah for his army. This Josiah refused to permit. He had probably entered into some new alliance with the king of Assyria, and faithful to his word he sought to oppose the progress of Necho.
The army of Judah went out and encountered that of Egypt at Megiddo, on the verge of the plain of Esdraelon. Josiah went into the field in disguise, and was fatally wounded by a random arrow. His attendants conveyed him toward Jerusalem, but had only reached Hadadrimmon, a few miles south of Megiddo, when he died (2 Kings 23:28, 30; comp. 2 Chr. 35:20-27), after a reign of thirty-one years. He was buried with the greatest honours in fulfilment of Huldah's prophecy (2 Kings 22:20; comp. Jer. 34:5). Jeremiah composed a funeral elegy on this the best of the kings of Israel (Lam. 4:20; 2 Chr. 35:25). The outburst of national grief on account of his death became proverbial (Zech. 12:11; comp. Rev. 16:16). -
106
How do I know the Bible is True?
by SwedishChef inhow do i know the bible is true?
by thomas schaff.
external evidence.
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SwedishChef
Donkey,
I have a question: do you believe the Biblical account of Jesus Christs place of birth and crucifixion are accurate? Secular history supports it as well.
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106
How do I know the Bible is True?
by SwedishChef inhow do i know the bible is true?
by thomas schaff.
external evidence.
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SwedishChef
Donkey,
Only if and when God opens your eyes, and you search the Scriptures open mindedly, will you realize how truly awe inspiring and wonderful God's word is.
All I can say is, "you don't know what you're missing."
Salvation is instantaneous, but spiritual growth takes a lifetime. It has taken several years for me to get to where I am now. And I have no one to credit but the Lord.
The more I read the Bible, the more assured I am of it's authenticity (not to mention all the supporting external evidence).
I have not yet begun to scratch the surface.
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13
How do you see God?
by JH in.
what kind of person do you think god is?
do you see god as your friend or are you in constant fear of being destroyed by him?
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SwedishChef
Psalms 106:48 "Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD."
This God, the one true God of the Bible, is my God.
The God who formed the earth and the heavens, the God who made himself manifest in the flesh, died for sinners such as you and I, and rose again.
Revelation 19:16 "And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
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106
How do I know the Bible is True?
by SwedishChef inhow do i know the bible is true?
by thomas schaff.
external evidence.
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SwedishChef
How Do I Know the Bible is True? By Thomas Schaff
External Evidence
That is, facts outside of the Bible demonstrate that it is a reliable and trustworthy source of information.
Scientific Evidence
No scientific fact has ever disproved the Bible in any way. Many people will say, "The Bible is not a scientific book, but is meant to provide a religious or spiritual view of the universe." The implication of that statement is that because the physical descriptions serve a religious intent, these descriptions cannot be expected to be absolutely accurate. Therefore, we are told not to trust the scientific details but only seek the moral or religious teaching.
This line of thinking is wrong because it is illogical. How are we to decide which statements are true and which are not? If we cannot trust some statements in the Bible, then we cannot trust the moral or spiritual message it brings. The reason we could not trust the spiritual message is that we would not have a standard by which to know what things are accurate and relevant to our lives and what things are inaccurate and not to be taken seriously.
This line of thinking is wrong because it is a faithless insult to God Who is the author of the Bible. The accuracy of the accounts, people, and places in the Bible is a reflection of God's integrity, inasmuch as He presents statements which are to be taken at face value and which are a reflection of God's ability to keep the contents of the Bible accurate over the centuries. We cannot have too high a regard for the accurate description of the physical world as presented in the Bible because it reflects upon God Who wrote it.
An Example from Geography
While the Bible does not intend to deliberately school its readers in scientific principles and data, any subject which it discusses about God's creation is accurate and true. As one case in point, we can turn to Job 26:7, where we read a modern description of the earth as it spins in empty space. This was written about 3,000 years B.C. This description is in sharp contrast to the fantastic imaginary notions which the rest of the world taught or believed at that time. In support of Job 26:7, Isaiah 40:22 points out that God sits upon "the circle of the earth." The earth would appear as a "circle" to all those who lived on it only if it were a sphere. Isaiah 40 matches the description in Job 26 and supports its accurate statement, which is what we can expect from the Bible. After all, who knows better than the Creator how the universe is designed and built?
An Example from Archaeology
The oldest extant copies of the most famous Greek poems and essays are from 800 to 1,000 years newer than the original manuscripts. However, no scholar would accept an argument that these Greek classics are unfaithful to the original and should be thrown away. In contrast to that, the oldest copies of many Old Testament books are only 200 years newer than the original. And the oldest copies of some New Testament books are dated only 50 to 80 years later than the original autographs. On the basis of that information, then, the Bible should be trusted at least as much as the Greek literature, which is so revered today.
Recent discoveries have validated the historical integrity of the Bible, causing many archaeologists, who have had a poor regard for the Bible, to turn from a bias against it to a scientific respect for it. For example, in Genesis 15:20 a people called the "Hittites" are mentioned. For centuries, people laughed at the Bible for making up a whole group of people. But a few decades ago, the ruins of a city located in the country of Turkey, north of present-day Israel, was discovered which proved to be the ruins of a main Hittite city.
Historical Evidence
The Bible tells about things before they happen. The prophet Isaiah talks about the Persian king Cyrus (Isaiah 45:1), who would eventually restore the nation of Judah. Persia was a great kingdom, located in what is now the country of Iran.
Isaiah wrote during the reign of the Judaean king Hezekiah, who died in 687 B.C., but Cyrus did not begin to reign as king of the Persian empire until after 600 B.C., more than 80 years after Isaiah left the scene. Only God could know the name of the man who would be the Persian king before he sat on the throne.
Many historical prophecies of Jesus Christ were given 1,000 years before His birth. Every Old Testament book of the Bible refers clearly to Jesus. For example, notice the detail of Psalm 22, Isaiah 53, and Micah 5:2.
Faced with this historical evidence, we have only the following options. Either the Bible was written by Him for whom time is no barrier, or it is a joke, or it is a hoax in which people later scribbled in the prophecies to make the Bible look good, or it is an evil deception. The right choice is that the Bible alone is God's holy and true Word.
Evidence from Personal Experience
Another source of external evidence is the personal experience of those who have been changed by the Bible. There are noticeable differences in the life of a person who has placed his trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and who walks according to His Word, the Bible. In other words, the Bible can do for believers what it claims it can do.
The Bible promises to remove the penalty of judgement and gives the assurance that there is no condemnation to all who trust what it says (John 5:24, Romans 8:1,16, I John 4:18). The Bible promises that it can make a Christian clean inside (Psalm 119:9,11, John 15:3). The Bible promises freedom from slavery to sin as well as the wisdom and power to successfully overcome sin (John 8:34-36, Romans 6:18, Colossians 3:1-2). The Bible gives meaning and purpose to life, which motivate a Christian to serve his Lord (I Peter 2:9). All of these things are part of the experience of a believer. Believers experience a life which they never had before, a new life which is evidenced by the fact that they are no longer full of bitterness and regret about their past since they have read of God's forgiveness (Hebrews 10:16-17). Believers experience a new life which is evidenced by the fact that they can sacrifice for others. Believers experience a new life which is evidenced by the fact that they can overcome their fears because they rest in the Lord rather than in a vain hope that somehow things will work out alright. A person who trusts in the Bible has the personal spiritual experience to know that the promises of the Bible are more than just poetry, they are real and testify to his heart that his trust in the Bible is not misplaced.
Internal Evidence
In addition to external evidence, there is internal evidence that gives us good reason to trust the Bible. In other words, there are facts inside of the Bible that demonstrate it is a reliable and trustworthy source of information.
The Bible's Testimony
The Bible claims that it is from God. For example, in II Samuel 23:2 David, who wrote many of the psalms, stated that what he wrote came from God. Jeremiah stated the same thing (Jeremiah 1:4), as did the Apostle Paul (I Thessalonians 2:13). Peter says Paul's writings are "scripture" (II Peter 3:16). Jesus Himself makes many statements about the Bible's trustworthy character (Luke 16:17, 24:44, John 17:17). For example, Jesus routinely considered all Old Testament stories to be trustworthy accounts (Luke 11:51, 17:26-33).
The Bible's Unity
The Bible was written over a period of more than 1,500 years, from Moses' time (before 1400 B.C.) to the time of the Apostle John (about A.D. 100). The total number of human authors is at least forty. And yet, even though all these different men wrote at different times, the message they wrote is always the same, without any contradiction in any details. The reason is that God is the author, who used men to set down what He wanted to say. The human writers lived and died at different times, but the same God Who lives forever told each man what to write. For that reason, we are able to compare different parts of the Bible and find that they agree with, support, and clarify each other (I Corinthians 2:13). We can go to any part of the Bible and know it is consistently trustworthy.
The Bible's Contents
The most amazing internal evidences of the Bible's trustworthiness are the subjects that it discusses. The contents of the Bible, the things it talks about, are things that the Bible could say only if it were written by God. For example, the Bible states that Jesus claimed that He is God (John 10:30); the Bible states that Jesus' apostles claimed that He is God (John 20:28); the Bible states that the Father declared that He is God (Hebrews 1:8). The conclusion of this testimony is that either the message of the Bible is an insane and evil deception, or the message is true and the Bible is the only book of its kind.
Another important example is that only the Bible talks about sin (I John 3:14). No man has the courage to write the accurate assessment of humankind that is described in the Bible. The Bible presents a horrible picture. It offends us, and we are not happy to read it. This explains why we find it so hard to believe that the Bible is true. The problem is not with the evidence but rather with our hearts. Who wants to know that he is a miserable, rotten, no-good sinner? Who rejoices at being told that he is headed for hell, where he will suffer under the eternal wrath of God? Who welcomes the knowledge that there is no good in him at all and that he is in rebellion against the God Who made him?
Only God can be honest with us because only He knows the truth. Only God is willing to be honest with us as an expression of His love. Real love is not expressed by the words of people who try to make us feel good by means of vain flatteries, but leave us in our situation because they have no real hope to offer. Real love is expressed by the truth because it is the only thing that can help us. The Bible's honest word-portrait of humankind is not appealing. However, the Bible contains the words of a real Friend. God knows we are walking on the edge of a cliff ready to fall into hell. He tells us exactly what we need to know to avoid this peril. Even though the Bible is not going to show up on the list of the ten most popular books of the year, only the Bible can make and keep a promise such as "Come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" (Matthew 11:28-30).
The Bible's Message
There is one final idea we must face when we consider whether the Bible can be trusted. Most people believe that there is a God. But if God is really God, then He speaks with absolute authority and we must submit to His Word. In other words, what we think about God's Word, and how we react to it, reflects what we think about God Himself. We cannot separate God and His Bible. We do not have to believe the Bible, but we must deal with the consequences. If people do not believe in the God of the Bible then they are going to act like it, for the bitter fruit of their selfish lives will come to harvest, as the Bible says it will. This is the most frightening evidence of all. In addition to that, they must deal with an angry God who pursues them beyond the grave and will force them to submit to His Word on Judgement Day, as the Bible predicts.
It is a good thing to ask if we can trust the Bible. The Bible is able to take our scrutiny and come through vindicated. James 1:6 states that we must never feel reluctant to ask God for the ability to trust in His Word and the wisdom needed to get the most out of the Bible. However, Bible study is a holy inquiry. Only if we approach the Bible humbly and with an open mind toward the truth, will we find the answers we need. -
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Benny Hinn
by mike047 indid anyone watch dateline last night?
the expose' on pastor hinn was exactly what i would have expected.
mike
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SwedishChef
Old Hinn sure does paint a bad picture of Christians. Although he claims to be one, it is blatantly clear that he is not one, and that his sole purpose is the get the mighty buck. Besides the fact that he is a lying, cheating, money grubbing swindler - his teachings puff himself up and go completely against what the Bible says. (that goes for 99% of the people on TBN)
For any unbelievers, don't think he teaches Christianity.
I could go through a list of all his false contradictory teachings, but that would wear my fingers to the bone - and anyone can find dirt on him on the web.