Posts by Yerusalyim

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

Remember, the church was first called "catholic" by Ignatius in about AD 105. As early as AD 95 Churches were turning to the heirarchy in Rome to settle disputes (Witness the letters of Clement to the Church at Corinth). That the Church developed is beyond question. Jesus did not leave a blue print for church organization. The core doctrines have pretty much always been there though. The one thing that makes Catholics most Catholic, the teaching of the REAL PRESENCE in the Eucharist, has been central to Christianity UNTIL the Reformation and was there in the beginning. Yes, it did take a few centuries for the Papacy to develop into what it has. That does NOT mean the Catholic Church didn't exist until the Papacy had fully developed anymore than the WTBTS didn't exist until it's current development with the GB and the Corp. It is the FAITH that we transmit, the body of beleivers and beleif that Ignatius called "catholic". The Core was there and built upon. So I would say yes even the writers of the NT were Catholic in that we received from them the faith and have passed it on to the present. Not without a few hiccups I might add.

Just my humble opinion.

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

Yerusalyim

Dark Cloud,

My point was that the prohibition agaisnt images was against WORSHIPPING images, not against having them, though Jewish Scholars did read it as a prohibition against representations of God. Then again, Jewish Scholars also turned "You shall not boil a kid goat in it's mothers milk" into not allowing any meat and dairy products.
together.

The thingy about the Church the body of Christ being ONE was in reference to a remark about the Church being a world wide organization.

Hope that clears up my comments. Sometimes my brain goes faster than my fingers.

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

1

Auset

by lovetobehere in

jw
friends

i need you to pick me up this morning.

read your messenger

Yerusalyim

I've been trying to pick you up all week. *-*)

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

Yerusalyim

Ozzie,

You do make some good points, but I'd like to nit pick a few of them.

"**the Bible is a product of the Catholic Church**
Oh, come now!"
It was the Catholic Church that defined what books would be included in the bible. Remember, there were all kinds of books floating around that claimed to be scripture, The Shepherd of Hermes, The Protoevangelem of James, and The Acts of Peter to name a few. It was Ireneaus, the Bishop of Lyons France that gave us the definitive list that was later confirmed in a council of the church.

"**The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years**
That's historical revisionism. You're repeating the Reformation all over again."

This is pretty much true. The structures that the apostles left behind developed into the Catholicism we know today. Not Revisionism, but an accurate interpretation of the facts.

**It teaches that even Pagans and Atheists can receive eternal salvation**
Does the Bible teach that? Remember you said that the "Bible is a product of the Catholic Church".

The bible does teach that those who through no fault of their own have not heard the gospel MIGHT be saved, see Romans Chapter 2.

Other than that, DRIVE ON BIG MAN!

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

6

The Amazing Disappearing Father!

by benge in

jw
friends

hi hope you can help.. what is disassociation?

is it why despite a recent reestablishment of communications with my dad has dissolved into stilted telephone conversations and a request for me not to contact him?.

he and his family have been jw's for ten years, and although it hasn't been the closest of relationships in that time it has not reached this level before.. i have never been in the jw's and had never thought that they would promote the cutting off of family.

Yerusalyim

Benge,

Welcome to the board. Stick around and learn. NOPE. Disassociation has nothing to do with your father's conduct. Disassociation is when a JW breaks contact with the Society either formally (in writing) or by not going to meetings anymore. Your father for some reason has decided to avoid contact with you. Are you a BAD ASSOCIATION (another term to become familiar with). Without knowing all the circumstances it may be that your father still has some bad feelings from whatever it was that caused this enstrangement in the first place, and is using the JW's as a way out. If you have in anyway insulted or denegrated his religion this too might play a role. If you're a Christian pray for him.
My heart goes out to you the Society has been responsible for the break up of MANY families.

I'll ask first. What's your story?

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

24

I ate meat on Friday

by chester in

jw
friends

i was raised as a catholic.

it used to be considered a sin to eat meat on friday.

even for a little boy who was at the age of reason.. i remember very well the time when i was in the second grade about the age of 7 that i did eat a hot dog on a friday.. i knew that it was a sin but i ate it anyway.

Yerusalyim

One of my all time favorite cartoons features two devils in hell with the tormented in the background, one devil says to the other, "OK, now what do we do with all the Catholics who ate meat on Fridays?" Absolutely hilarious.
But seriously, at age 7, I doubt that you had the mental skills to be able to commit a sin by eating meat on Friday. Friday is still supposed to be a day of Penance, one is supposed to give up something. Some continue to not eat meat on all fridays. The sin is not the eating of the meat or not, but rather, the willful disobedience. Remember, the Church was given authority both to bind and loose.

Kust my humble thoughts.

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

Yerusalyim

I too would like to clear up a few misconceptions stated in the above post, this being from a Catholic's perspective.

First: "The Catholic Church claims to be the only true church. They use the term `the Mother Church` .Likewise the WTS claims sole possesion of the TRUTH and calls the org.`mother" True, the church claims to have the FULLEST EXPRESSION of the faith, but we recognize the truth of other faiths, even NON CHRISTIAN ones. And for sure recognize that in some sense, all Christians belong to the one church, the one body of Christ. As Paul writes, "Is Christ divided". So unlike the JW's we recongize the truth found in other religions, and that non-catholics, go to heaven, and even that NON-Christians can be saved. That and the fact that we truly can trace our history back to the APostles also helps our arguement about having the fullest expression of the faith.

SECOND: "Much like the elder arrangement. The RCC uses fear tactics to encourage people to stay in the org." Fear? Where, when? Those who leave to join another Christian faith are not shunned, nor do we say they are going to hell.

Third: "And both discourage (if not forbid) learning the Bible
on your own,lest you come to a different conclusion than `Mother:" What was discouraged was reading unapproved translations of the bible, and individual interpretation. it is because of individual interpretation that we have over 20,000 protestant denominations. But learning the bible, at least today I can say that this is HIGHLY encouraged. ANy priest worth his salt would welcome questions and concerns from those who read the bible and have questions concerning doctrine. The other very unique thing as compared to JW's is that questions will not get you thrown out of the congregation (yes at one time it would, but not today).

Forth: Check out the Revelation book and see how many drawings there are of Jehovah all gold and sitting on a throne.I
thought the 10 commandments forbade ANY image of God...! Both religions boast of a unified world-wide organization. That prohibition is against WORSHIPPING images. and isn't the church supposed to be one body?

Fifth: "Both feature several extra-biblical prohibitions based on the orgs. interpretation. With the RCC it includes contraception and marriage of priests as well as some dietary restrictions. With the WTS the list would include blood issues (in Japan JWs can`t eat whale meat because it contains too much blood) as well as dress, reporting time,etc."

Very little actual doctrine is drawn from our extra-biblical sources. Celebacy of priests is a discipline, not a doctrine BIG DIFFERENCE. The dietary restrictions are also discipline, not doctrine. And we do feel that contraception as an issue can be infered from scripture just as the Trinity and a few other doctrines can. Again, you're not excommunicated for using contraception as you would be for taking blood as a JW.

But having said all this, yes I think the Society is a pot calling the kettle black on many of these issues.

Just my humble opinion.

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

21

Sisters with unbelieving Mates

by slipnslidemaster in

jw
friends

i asked this in one of the threads ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=5335) but i would like to explore it further.. am i the only one to think this or did it seem like the sisters with unbelieving mates and children seemed to be "tolerated" or marginalized?

they never seemed to be "full" witnesses to anybody in the congregation?.

my name is slipnslideius masterus: commander of the armies of the north, general of the felix legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, marcus aurelius...

Yerusalyim

My wife's second class citizenship as a JW started long before she met me, even long before her divorce from her EX I should think. She was the one with "two husbands" because her brother-in-law, her exhusband's twin, lived with them for 13 of their 15 married years. No there was no hanky panky going on with them. But she cooked, cleaned, washed laundry, etc for the bro-in-law. All the responsibilities of marriage without the sexual benefits. The b-in-l seemed to think he was also her head spiritually. When she finally had enough and told her ex it was either the b-in-l move out or she would, he was unimpressed. She even went to the Elders about the situation, but to no avail. When she divorced him SHE was the bad guy, not her. Her ex really expected her to take second place in his life after his brother. She DA'd herself during the divorce.

Of course, marrying me, an "unbeliever" didn't increase her status in the congregation. She waited until we moved to a new area to be re-instated. But as I was a NON JW and in the military, she wasn't made to feel welcomed. In the first two congregations no one thought to approach me (thank GOD) except for a few part time JW's who I knew from work etc. My children from my previous marriage were invited out to play hockey, etc with kids in the congregation when her ex had their kids for a weekend or something. I allowed it even though I knew it was in an effort to convert the kids. Not to worry, they are solidly against JW doctrine.

In Germany, however, efforts to be social were made by the congregation. As it was an English speaking congregation in a German area, most families had some ties to the military. There were, of course, efforts to convert me, but to no avail. I sat in on a few book studies that the kids did with one or another MS. I actually developed a friendship with one of the Elders there, a nice guy, we had a lot in common. At any rate, I guess my wife had a taste of freedom and is running with it. I can honestly say that in the last two years I've been to the Kingdom hall much more than she has. Here in the congregation in the states she was not welcomed, even though it's a military community and many in the congregation have military connections. She still talks about converting back to the catholicism of her youth. We'll see. Just my thoughts.

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

19

Just getting to know everybody

by Chungwingding in

jw
friends

hey there.

Yerusalyim

Chingding aling

Welcome...

Seven, is that really a picture of you (please say yes).

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet

32

Wow! The look they had on their faces!

by ianao in

jw
friends

witnesses: "why, no sir.

witnesses: "well, actually sir if...".

witnesses: "ok sir, but may i just say something?".

Yerusalyim

The JW's were knocking at my mom and dad's door the day of my Grandmaother's funeral. I answered. The neighbors said the funniest thing they'd ever seen was the witness, books in hand, fleeing down the sidewalk with me chasing after them, bible in hand. It was GREAT fun.

YERUSALYIM
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespere: Hamlet