Posts by Unclepenn1

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

Julie,there were things that were done in OT timnes that we would not and could not understand. God had separated Israel because of the total depravity of man, and set them apart for His glory and to live for righteousness in the midst of chaos. There were civilizations back then that did the most deplorable things, and God said to wipe them out entirely, not even sparing the children or livestock. When I became a new Christian and read some of these things I was shocked. I knew and loved Jesus and was born again and walked in newness of life, yet would come across some of the OT stuff and just cringe. I know from experience that it is very easy to look at other cultures and time periods and get the wrong impressions. The things that happened back then, practiced by the nations that surrounded Israel were atrocious. The Cananites would take a pregnant woman who was in labor, bind her hands behind her back and tie her legs together and leave her in the desert to die of severe hemorraging and internal bleeding, no doubt killing the baby in the process, all to appease the gods they worshiped. Other cultures would heat metal till it was white hot and place their babies on it, to appease the god Molech. Some of the worst things imaginable were done and God said to destroy them all. In my thinking, and as my knowldege of God increases, I would surmise that God had even the children killed to save them from His judgemnent. Perhaps if He had spared them, they would have grown up and commited the sins of their parents and be condemned to Hell. Since God sees everything, we cannot just say this or that is wrong if we do not understand the context. Try this analogy; Imagine what a child thinks when given a shot in the arm to heal it from disease. If children could talk to one another, they would all say that doctors were the cruelest people on earth, sticking needles in kids arms just to satisfy some sick desire. Little do they know that these painful shots have saved their lives. In the same respect, I think God does things that seem cruel on the surface, yet if we could see the overall picture, we might think differently.God hates wickedness, and His judgements are just even if we cannot see the justice in them at the time.Keep in mind, this is the same God who says in the NT to love your enemies and do good to those who persecute you. Why the change? Well,if God had said that in the OT days, the other cultures would have wiped them out and taken over the world. ANyway, just my 2c.

Mohammed- 'My teachings lead to the attainment of truth'
Buddha- 'The truth has been revealed to me'
Jesus- 'I am the truth'

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

Oh yea, let's not start another 'What about the slaughter of the Amalekites in the OT' I think that was already hashed out before, but if we must again, I will concede. I will need sometime to do it though, and today isn't looking too good. Anyway, just guessing your next post.

Penn

Smile [>:(]

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

Tina, go ahead and compare missing children statistics from 40 years ago and compare them today. Puhleeeezze!! And yes the Bible does record horrendous acts of mans depravity. It does not support them however! There is a difference! Show me a verse that says we should put children into slavery or rape women or any of those other things. Are they in the Bible? Yes, because mankind loves darkness! Intellectual and moral.

Busy today, I'll try to check in when I can :)

Penn

Every human being, but especially the adult, prefers to keep on believing what he already believes, and to accept ideas only when they reinforce the ideas he already has. He tends, in other words, to become less and less intellectually curious and to have more and more of a closed mind as he grows older. - Charles Adrian

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

Julie, I intend to begin a new thread regarding your profile signature. I have been far too busy at work to have any time, other than some quick replies.I am sure you will see it...just a heads up.

Thanks for the chat.

Penn

You too Bridg, and peacepipe, and all y'all!!

Mohammed- 'My teachings lead to the attainment of truth'
Buddha- 'The truth has been revealed to me'
Jesus- 'I am the truth'

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

Bridg, once again I must say that whatever is done in the name of the Bible that has anything to do with racism or hate or unjustice is in illogical outworking of that book. I quoted earlier Jesus said "How can you say you love God yet hate your brother, you're a liar". Now just because some fool twists Christs words and says, 'well surely my brother can't be that nigg*r' does not mean that the Bible is the problem. It is man's utter depravity. If we are moving away from being depraved, why such a decline? I don't remember seeing kids on milk cartons when I was younger, and I am only 29 (and holding**smile**). Also, no I was never a Jdub. I just talk with a lot of them. I hope you don't think I reason like them, because they tend to be very deceptive in their discussions (not to make a hasty generalization, but at least the few dozen I have dealt with). Also, enough with the compliments, you are making me blush!

Mohammed- 'My teachings lead to the attainment of truth'
Buddha- 'The truth has been revealed to me'
Jesus- 'I am the truth'

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

I said: That is what is called in the world of logical thinking a 'Red Herring'.

Julie said- Did I Penn?

Yes, let's have a look at your earlier statement.

Julie said- Indeed such things are not very enlightened.

OK, so far so good.....

Julie said- Minus the high tech stuff and I see all things that God himself supposedly had "his people" do to others. You are right--not very enlightened and I would expect more from God at least.

Red Herring!! Red Herring!!!!

But, come now Julie, let us reason together

When I think of history I think of a broader spectrum than a few decades ago and when I think of "mankind" I tend to think beyond the borders of the US.

Well my point was, there is tremendous moral decline in socitey, and gave a few examples. I was wondering how this fits into the 'We are becoming more enlightened' subject, but was not implying that I would be ignoring all of history. I could have given a myriad of examples, I chose one.

Julie-Anyhoo--yes I am convinced we are becoming more enlightened. We know more about medicine, the human mind, space, science, the beginnings of life on Earth and all manner of things than we ever have and this continues to increase.

I thought your definition of enlightenment was based on more of a spiritual meaning. Of course we have more information now than we did 100 years ago. Are progressively becoming better? That is where we vary.

Julie-Though I can see where your "What do you think about the state of the world today....?" approach (which btw, is a commom JW opener too when out schlepping JW mags)

I am not a JW nor have I ever been one.

Julie-Of course we will always have to deal with those who behave like the people of the OT times or Crusade times, the all-but-those-who-think-like-we-do-must-die attitude will be hard to eradicate but I like to harbor hope anyway.

Jesus said "How can you say you love God yet hate your brother, you're a liar"

People kiiling in the name of Jesus were not obeying the commands of the Bible. They are what the Bible calls hypocrites. Or to put in in a modern vernacular, pretenders. So basically, all the people you point to in discust over Christianity are pretenders and not even Christian in the first place. Jesus said you would know His followers by their love. Hmm, something about killing someone for not converting to Christianity seems to be a bit unloving.

Anyway Julie, I appreciate the conversation, but something tells me that we are not going to change each others views. Feel free to comment though if you like. Have a nice day :) :)

Mohammed- 'My teachings lead to the attainment of truth'
Buddha- 'The truth has been revealed to me'
Jesus- 'I am the truth'

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

Julie said- Indeed such things are not very enlightened. Minus the high tech stuff and I see all things that God himself supposedly had "his people" do to others. You are right--not very enlightened and I would expect more from God at least.

That is what is called in the world of logical thinking a 'Red Herring'. The topic that I addressed was your statement that we are becoming more enlightened and you changed the subject midsentence and blamed it on mans desire to worship God. Hmm, I was curious, you said that we are becoming more enlightened and I pointed out that in a 50-60 yr period, the problems in one aspect of our society, namely dealing with children, made a 180 degree shift. Back to the original question, if we are reaching this enlightenment, how is it that our major social structures (family, education, relationships) are disinigrating (sp?)?

Penn

Every human being, but especially the adult, prefers to keep on believing what he already believes, and to accept ideas only when they reinforce the ideas he already has. He tends, in other words, to become less and less intellectually curious and to have more and more of a closed mind as he grows older. - Charles Adrian

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

Peacepipe, yes I am a man **smiles**

The Matrix! Great movie, something I can totally relate to on a spiritual level. When I was born again 4 years ago, I entered into this truth that Neo had discovered (symbolically in the Matrix). Everyone else I knew was/is still walking around in this world like zombies, not even realizing they are slaves (to sin and darkness) and not wanting to be woken up either. So here I am, trying to share with people that they are in these 'death cocoon's' and they mock and joke but I know it is true and one day it will all be exposed.

Farkel... same story. I lived in PB for years but it was too expensive. Now I am in North Park. Small world!

Mohammed- 'My teachings lead to the attainment of truth'
Buddha- 'The truth has been revealed to me'
Jesus- 'I am the truth'

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

:Julie, would you say that people are moving further from enlightenment in view of the continual moral decline we see in society?

Julie said-Oh no, not at all. As crazy as this might seem it is quite the opposite.

OK, here are some things that teachers had to deal with in our schools in 1940....

Running in the halls, chewing gum, not putting paper in the waste paper basket, tardyness, talking in class.

Here is what they deal with today, in our age of further enlightenment....

Rape, murder, gang violence, drugs, guns, bombs, teen pregnancy, alcohol, abortion, blackmail, metal detectors, and just plain rebellion! Are we really progressing towards enlightenment?

Julie said-While war is not a rarity these days it is much less common than it once was.

Did you know that there have been over 100 wars since 1940?

Julie said -I do think it is ironic that the bloodiest place on Earth (the middle east) is also considered to be "holy" by countless souls.

How 'ironic' is it that the Bible says that Jerusalem will be a 'cup of trembling' and a 'burdensome stone' for the entire world. Hmm, strange, written thousands of years ago, some obscure piece of property 1/3 the size of San Bernadino County will be a burden for the WHOLE WORLD! When is the last time in the last 10 years you picked up a newspaper and Israel wasn't being talked about.

Something to think about

Mohammed- 'My teachings lead to the attainment of truth'
Buddha- 'The truth has been revealed to me'
Jesus- 'I am the truth'

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Unclepenn1

Hey Bridgette, thanks for the kind words. No, I was never a witness, just your garden variety pagan that got saved. I used to get so sad seeing people waste their saturdays getting all dressed up and going door to door spreading lies, so I got interested in reaching these people with the love of God. Anyway, that's why I am here, to just kind of learn more and chat with folks like you.

I have a love for truth and I think it is logical and objective. I ask questions to try and draw out information from people to see what they believe and then test it in light of what I know to be true. I have found that most don't really give it much thought. For instance, I was having dinner with some folks the other night and the lady I sat across from told me that she believed all paths lead to heaven. I asked about the WTC tragedy and that if that road lead there too. She said no. So, I began a 'tongue in cheek' dialogue giving her the impression that I thought she was oppressive to people's beliefs. This made her think about morality and the possibilty that people can be wrong about God. Anyway, if you ever want to discuss things like this futher, I would welcome an email type conversation. Have a great night!

Penn

Mohammed- 'My teachings lead to the attainment of truth'
Buddha- 'The truth has been revealed to me'
Jesus- 'I am the truth'