"talking to her, he realized how easy it was to present an appearance of orthodoxy while having no grasp whatever of what orthodoxy meant.
in a way, the world-view of the party governing body imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it.
they could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening.
Oh and... O'Brien is Rutherford, Knorr and Franz all rolled into one mashup; INGSOC is "the Truth"; The Times is the Watchtower Magazine and other publications; The disfellowshipped and dissociated people are UNPERSONS; The "news" from the Ministry of Plenty are the Yearbooks; The interrogation cells within the Ministry of Truth are the Judicial Comitees. The Thought Police are the overzealous, self-righteous, company-men Elders and CO's.
What else would you add?
Eden
"talking to her, he realized how easy it was to present an appearance of orthodoxy while having no grasp whatever of what orthodoxy meant.
in a way, the world-view of the party governing body imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it.
they could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening.
While I was reading 1984, it struck me very deeply that the Party was the Organization, lead by the semi-mythological Big Brother, the Governing Body; The Inner Party was the Brooklyn Establishment; The Outer Party are the DO, CO, Elders, MSs; The Proles are the R&F Witnesses; The "enemy" is "the worldy-wicked system", lead by Satan; Goldstein is the semi-fabled epythom of the apostates and Goldstein's Book is the apostate literature; Newspeak is the "theocratic lexicon"; and the list goes on ...
The thing that impressed me most was the ability of the Party to re-write the past: He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past.
The Watchtower's constant re-writing of its own history and the "new light" that obliterates from memory the "old light" is absolutely Orwellian. To the detail of vaporizing the memory of those who became dissidents from our records. Thank God for the internet and people like Barbara Anderson.
Eden
"talking to her, he realized how easy it was to present an appearance of orthodoxy while having no grasp whatever of what orthodoxy meant.
in a way, the world-view of the party governing body imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it.
they could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening.
Did somebody call me?
Great timing...!
Eden
i recently started thinking if there could be a way to refute the entire 1914 doctrine without having to go into discussing chronology - like proving if jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce or not; if the "gentile times" have anything to to with the kingdom; if "7 times" are really 2520 years"; if those are solar years or lunar years .... and i came to this conclusion: nothing of that matters!
when will the lord sit at the right hand of jehovah?
therefore, the fulfillment of psalm 110:1, when the lord sits by the right hand of jehovah god took place sometime between 35 ce and 60 ce.. .
The "three ribs" between the teeh of the [Medo-Persian] Third Beast may well be the three main kingdoms conquered and subdued by the founder of the Medo-Persian empire, Cyrus, The Great: Elam (Capital: Susa); Neo-Babylonian (Capital: Babylon); Lydian (Capital: Sardis).
The three beasts outlive the slain of the fourth beast "for a season and a time", but without significant power - Babylon, Persia and Macedonia outilved the Seleucian Empire for a short time until they were finally absorbed by the Roman Empire.
Eden
i recently started thinking if there could be a way to refute the entire 1914 doctrine without having to go into discussing chronology - like proving if jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce or not; if the "gentile times" have anything to to with the kingdom; if "7 times" are really 2520 years"; if those are solar years or lunar years .... and i came to this conclusion: nothing of that matters!
when will the lord sit at the right hand of jehovah?
therefore, the fulfillment of psalm 110:1, when the lord sits by the right hand of jehovah god took place sometime between 35 ce and 60 ce.. .
Also, a possible interpretation for the three beasts of Daniel 7:
These animals were political powers that ruled over the territory of the "saints of the Most High", Jerusalem, from the day when this prophecy was uttered, that is, " In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon" (Daniel 7:1) The four beasts rise from "the great sea", the Mediterranean - therefore, these are empires whose territories confronted the shores of the Mediterranean sea. (7:1, 2)
Therefore, the first beast is the Neo-Babylonean Empire. Its wings are "plucked out" and its tamed down when the Persians conquer Babylon.
The Second Beast, the Bear-like beast that "was raised on one of his sides" (7:5) is the Medo-Persian empire, with the Persian side being more prominent.
The Third Beast is the Macedonian Empire, whose "body" was Alexander the Great, and the four "heads" are the four kingdoms that splintered from the Greek Macedonian Empire, under four former generals of Alexander: The Ptolomaic Egypt; The Seleucian Syria; The Kingdom of Pergamon; The Kingdom of Macedonia
The Fourth Beast, the most terrifying one (because it was the one that would bring the "great tribulation" over the "saints of the Most Holy") is, like I said abefore, the Seleucian Syrian Empire, in particular, the 10 kings from Antiochus III The Great and Antiochus VII Sidetes.
Eden
i recently started thinking if there could be a way to refute the entire 1914 doctrine without having to go into discussing chronology - like proving if jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce or not; if the "gentile times" have anything to to with the kingdom; if "7 times" are really 2520 years"; if those are solar years or lunar years .... and i came to this conclusion: nothing of that matters!
when will the lord sit at the right hand of jehovah?
therefore, the fulfillment of psalm 110:1, when the lord sits by the right hand of jehovah god took place sometime between 35 ce and 60 ce.. .
bjc2read
Consider these three details:
a) The fourth beast is slained BEFORE the "Son of Man" is presented before the Ancient of Days (7:11-13);
b) The first three beasts survive "for a season and time" the demise of the fourth beast, albeit without their former authority. (Daniel 7:11, 12)
c) Nowhere in the text is said that is the "Son of Man" that executes juddgement upon this fourth beast (Daniel 7:26); Actually, his beligerance is against the "Most High" (God) and the "saints of the Most High" (the Jews), NOT against the "Son of Man" (Daniel 7:25)
In view of the above, consider the following possibility:
The "fourth beast" is the Seleucian Empire (Syria) that caused great tribulation to the "saints of the Most High" (the Jews) over a period of time that covers 10 Kings, from Antiochus III The Great (that conquered the province of Coele-Syria - that included Jerusalem - for the first time to the Seleucian Empire), until Antiochus VII Sidetes, the last Seleucian King to wage war against Jerusalem, ending the "great tribulation" over the Jews under the Syrians.
The 10 horns (Kings) would be:
Antiochus III The Great > Seleucus IV Filopater > Antiochus IV Epiphanes > Antiochus V Eupator > Demetrius I Soter > Alexander I Balas > Demetrius II Nicator > Antiochus VI Dionysius > Diodotus Tryphon >Antiochus VII Sidetes.
Among these 10, one king (horn) in particular became prominent in his war against the "saints of the Most Holy": Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who caused massive destruction and killings in Jerusalem, outlawd the Jewish religious practice and traditions, dessacrated the second temple in Jerusalem, even interrupting the services in the temple until the re-dedication of the temple 3 1/2 years later (coincident with Daniel 7:25)
Which three horns (Kings) Antiochus defeated? They may refer to the three high priests of Israel (Onias III, Jasan, Manelaus) that were his contemporaries and where "plucked" from their office as High Priests during the reign of Antiochus IV.
Eden
i recently started thinking if there could be a way to refute the entire 1914 doctrine without having to go into discussing chronology - like proving if jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce or not; if the "gentile times" have anything to to with the kingdom; if "7 times" are really 2520 years"; if those are solar years or lunar years .... and i came to this conclusion: nothing of that matters!
when will the lord sit at the right hand of jehovah?
therefore, the fulfillment of psalm 110:1, when the lord sits by the right hand of jehovah god took place sometime between 35 ce and 60 ce.. .
The Searcher
Fair point. I edited it.
Eden
i recently started thinking if there could be a way to refute the entire 1914 doctrine without having to go into discussing chronology - like proving if jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce or not; if the "gentile times" have anything to to with the kingdom; if "7 times" are really 2520 years"; if those are solar years or lunar years .... and i came to this conclusion: nothing of that matters!
when will the lord sit at the right hand of jehovah?
therefore, the fulfillment of psalm 110:1, when the lord sits by the right hand of jehovah god took place sometime between 35 ce and 60 ce.. .
Bobcat,
essentially we agree. When John received the Revelation, the "Lord's Day" had already started. It started either a) at his birth; b) at his baptism; c) after his resurrection; d) when he ascended to heavens; e) When he was made King (sometime in the first century). In any case, NOT in 1914.
Eden
"talking to her, he realized how easy it was to present an appearance of orthodoxy while having no grasp whatever of what orthodoxy meant.
in a way, the world-view of the party governing body imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it.
they could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening.
"Talking to her, he realized how easy it was to present an appearance of or thodoxy while having no grasp whatever of what orthodoxy meant. In a way, the world-view of the Party Governing Body imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding they remained sane. They simply swallowed everything, and what they swallowed did them no harm, because it left no residue behind, just as a grain of corn will pass undigested through the body of a bird. "
George Orwell, 1984
i prayed that 2 japanese men would come to church today, and thank god that 1 said yes so far.............so please pray he and his friend would come not only to church, but to jesus.
and i meet another non christian friend on monday, please pray for her salvation.. .
when asked which is the greatest commandment, jesus replied,.
cofty, well, I made a wrong statement assumption in your case.
Eden
