TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  22

  1914- responsible for the biggest decrease in JW's?

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  theres a couple of threads re: 1914 on the board right now and it got me thinking.. the jw doctrine of the 1914 generation is a key doctrine , yet it is probably the number one reason most have left over the decades.. 1975- within one generation.. 1995 - new understanding of the word generation.. 2010- overlapping generation first mentioned- some anointed survive armageddon.. 2015- infamous overlapping generations chart featuring david splane.. its obvious the org is changing the goalposts and constantly trying to squeeze as much time as they can before they have to abandon this altogether.

  or will they come up with something new?.

  does anyone else think this ever changing doctrine is responsible for the biggest loss of members?.

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  TonusOH

  I remember reading about that, maybe in Crisis of Conscience. I think 1925 had a huge effect on any future predictions. Because they rely on out-of-time urgency, they never stopped predicting the end of the world. But they tried to use language that wasn't as clear and definite as Rutherford had repeatedly used regarding 1925.

  Of course, they still slipped up from time-to-time. Most of the times they hinted at a date, they would occasionally use language that was all too clear. Unless they think that "the next few years" refers to more than 80 years.
  
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  40

  Congregation in PA sues over mandatory reporting

  by Corney in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  ivy hill congregation of jehovah's witnesses is currently suing the pa department of human services.

  it requests "a declaration that its elders are entitled to" clergy privilege, or, in the alternative,.

  to the extent that the clergyman privilege is determined to exclude its elders on the basis that they are "members of [a] religious organization[] in which members other than the leader thereof are deemed clergymen or ministers," the court declare the statute to be unconstitutional.

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  TonusOH

  Why don’t legislators repeal the federal laws and make mandatory reporting easy.

  If I am not mistaken, current law does not forbid them from coming forward with such information. But it does not compel them to break the confidentiality of the confessional, either. It is up to the clergy in question, whether they decide to contact authorities if they are given information regarding a crime or illegal activity.

  Edit: Or, I may be wrong about that, seeing Corney's post above mine.
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  This is then augmented at the server-side using artificial intelligent guesswork to re-create your image.

  I'm just glad it caught my good side!
  

  Edit: 256 pages! We're about to become a 16-bit topic!
  
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  I see his patreon supporters falling, but why in the world is his twitter following growing? Because we all like watching cartoons?

  Because we like watching train wrecks.
  
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  but there's some damaged individuals on there

  Now there is a take that aged rather poorly.
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  17

  How Murderers In the Congregation are handled

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't have the link but i am trying to post this, this is from a previous post on jwn.

  watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. dear brothers:.. we received your letter of december 17 in which you inquire about handling a situation involving a brother who has been guilty of serious violation of the law in the past.. you explained that you received information indicating that this brother ?committed several murders and crimes before his baptism.

  you ask if law obligates some action on our part.

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  TonusOH

  Anyone else hearing the same thing?

  Yes. I am also hearing this:

  WT: You say you killed several people in cold blood? Well, that's between you and god.

  WT: You say you slept with your boyfriend? We'll need a full accounting of the entire experience, with no details spared. Someone hand me a notepad and a moist towel, please.
  
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  And by "come off social media" he meant that he would continue to feverishly seek out and respond to every mention of him on the internet. Suddenly, his inability to differentiate between words like "regular" and "persistent" becomes clear.
  
• 
  17

  How Murderers In the Congregation are handled

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't have the link but i am trying to post this, this is from a previous post on jwn.

  watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. dear brothers:.. we received your letter of december 17 in which you inquire about handling a situation involving a brother who has been guilty of serious violation of the law in the past.. you explained that you received information indicating that this brother ?committed several murders and crimes before his baptism.

  you ask if law obligates some action on our part.

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  TonusOH

  What he does about paying his debt to Society is largely up to him and his conscience. Since he is apparently a fugitive from the law, he obviously would not qualify for any extra privileges of service in the congregation.

  That's pretty insane. I get the part about confidentiality, but they should have pointed out that it is more of a technicality than anything else. They have taught that Jehovah wanted "mercy, not sacrifices" and that Jesus gave examples of times when people violated divine law and God allowed it, because sometimes there was a greater good to be served and following the law mindlessly was not what God intended.

  Yet, here they are, saying that a fugitive multiple-murderer's own judgment should be relied upon to settle the matter, and until then make sure he doesn't handle a microphone or lead a prayer. That would be bad!
  
• 
  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  I'm guessing that the lawyer gave him advice on how to proceed, and may well have advised against it. But if Evans is aware of what he is doing and insists on proceeding, the lawyer can take the case if he doesn't feel that it's unethical to do so (ie, he has explained everything and the client wants to take action anyway). If the worst that is likely to happen is that he'll lose the case and have spent some money on lawyers for no gain, that probably happens all the time and wouldn't be a big deal.

  As for the potential fallout from such an action, that seems as if it would be Evans's fault, not the lawyer's. His insistence on making everything public, combined with his inability to control himself, is creating a mess that is entirely of his own making.
  
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  22

  1914- responsible for the biggest decrease in JW's?

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  theres a couple of threads re: 1914 on the board right now and it got me thinking.. the jw doctrine of the 1914 generation is a key doctrine , yet it is probably the number one reason most have left over the decades.. 1975- within one generation.. 1995 - new understanding of the word generation.. 2010- overlapping generation first mentioned- some anointed survive armageddon.. 2015- infamous overlapping generations chart featuring david splane.. its obvious the org is changing the goalposts and constantly trying to squeeze as much time as they can before they have to abandon this altogether.

  or will they come up with something new?.

  does anyone else think this ever changing doctrine is responsible for the biggest loss of members?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TonusOH

  I don't have a clue about the actual numbers, but I do think it was a mistake to return to the "generation" teaching after they effectively let it go in 1995. It was a way of admitting that the teaching was wrong, and they could still cling to 1914 as the year Christ quietly returned and began the last days. It would hurt them in terms of recruiting if they could not create the old sense of urgency, but the "generation" teaching was dead at that point.

  Going back and redefining it was a way to imply that there is a deadline that can be counted, in the hopes of creating that old sense of urgency. But it's a complicated and messy concept, and you can no longer just say "the generation that saw these things is getting older" because (A)you already abandoned that idea and (B)everyone knows you can just extend it again. So you cannot create the urgency this way, but you also set off a lot of people's BS meters. There is only so much most people can take before the doubts become a real problem.