Recovery

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Posts by Recovery

• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

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  Recovery

  bttt
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  15

  Questions for Recover and ANY JW here, if can be explained I'll return to JW.

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while i am waiting for him to answer my question.

  i thought i would ask of him and any other jw's.

  we are supposed to have the truth, the bible is all scripture is inspired and benefitical for teaching, reproving, and setting things straight.

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  Recovery

  Can you please make a simple list of questions that you would like answered. Your explanation is fine but I just need a direct question.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

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  Recovery

  The only thing I have to say for Band on the Run is.....tell someone who cares. The insults are old. The ad hominem attacks are boring. The stereotypical view of anyone who doesn't condemn the WT as a ravenous cult is boring. Of course my arguments and my debating skills are weak. Of course I'm not very smart, I'm brainwashed, I'm a hypocrite, and I'm sure a list of more derogatory terms could be made if I collected all the names I'm called here on a daily basis.

  Now can anyone answer the four questions. EndOfMysteries at least took a shot at it. I will not be replying to anymore comments in this thread that don't address the four questions. People are constantly trying to muddy the issue and confuse onlookers. And it's a poor attempt at that.
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  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

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• 

  Recovery

  I asked: How can those who are immortal be guided to the fountains of waters of life?

  EndOfMysteries answered:You will notice in both the old testament and new testament one thing identical to the fountains/waters of life. That they come from under the temple. In the Old testament, this they come from under the temple, one flows to the dead sea and brings life to the sea. Also trees grow on both sides and their leafs give healing to the nations. Jesus says that YOU, your BODY is the temple, and inside you a spring will bubble and give life. Then in Revelation, it appears a spiritual Jerusalem with waters flowing from it.

  Okay, I'm not really sure how this answers the question. Can you possibly rephrase with a one-sentence answer that makes it clear exactly what you are trying to say?

  I asked: 'How will they 'no longer hunger or thirst or experience the heat from the sun' anymore when they have HEAVENLY, SPIRITUAL, IMMORTAL BODIES'

  Reply: As for how will they no longer hunger, experience the heat from the sun, your question alone answered that, if they are spiritual they do not need to eat and the heat from the sun would not harm them. If they are immortal, there is no death.

  The scripture says 'God will wipe out every tear from their eyes'. This is implying that in the present (the vision that John is presently seeing) things such as tears still exist. Pain, mourning, scorching heat from the sun, still exist. The scripture says that these things will be no more. If we interpret the great crowd as inhabiting heaven, they have already received their immortal bodies, and these things do not exist (presently). Therefore, it cannot be said that such things will be down away with, when the interpretation requires that they already have been eliminated. I hope this helps. This is why the interpretation of the great crowd being in heaven poses so many issues that directly contradict the following verses that follow the vision.

  I didn't disagree with anything you said about 1 Corinthians so there's nothing I can really respond to about that.

  What is interesting, is the idea that flesh will live forever and never die, atleast once, seems to be spoken in Is 28:14-15, speaking about those who made a covenant with death, that they would never die, how it's a false teaching.

  Isaiah 28:14-15 "Therefore hear the word of Jehovah, YOU braggarts, YOU rulers of this people who are in Jerusalem: 15 Because YOU men have said: “We have concluded a covenant with Death; and with She′ol we have effected a vision; the overflowing flash flood, in case it should pass through, will not come to us, for we have made a lie our refuge and in falsehood we have concealed ourselves.."

  The people in Jerusalem did not believe that they would live forever and not die. They simply believed that Assyria would not come through Jerusalem and that they would be protected by Egypt. Again, I'm not really getting the flux of your argument.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

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  Recovery

  I will address your arguments rather be in hades. I am preoccupied with Daniel's Prophecy at the moment.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

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• 

  Recovery

  Can we please keep the thread on topic. I really do not wish to engage in a discussion about court documents/child abuse at this moment.

  Questions still unanswered for lurkers and those who do not have the desire to read through 11 pages:

  How can the anointed, immortal anointed ones who are not subject to the physical realm and its effects experience these things in a FUTURE SENSE.

  How can those who are immortal be guided to the fountains of waters of life?

  How will they 'no longer hunger or thirst or experience the heat from the sun' anymore when they have HEAVENLY, SPIRITUAL, IMMORTAL BODIES?

  How WILL God wipe out every tear from their eyes when they are already in heaven with incorruptible, immortal spiritual bodies?
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  Questions that have gone unanswered:

  How can the anointed, immortal anointed ones who are not subject to the physical realm and its effects experience these things in a FUTURE SENSE.

  How can those who are immortal be guided to the fountains of waters of life?

  How will they 'no longer hunger or thirst or experience the heat from the sun' anymore when they have HEAVENLY, SPIRITUAL, IMMORTAL BODIES?

  How WILL God wipe out every tear from their eyes when they are already in heaven with incorruptible, immortal spiritual bodies?
• 
  35

  Dear Recovery...

  by OneDayillBeFree in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it is 3am here and i just finished reading your last post and even though i have to be up at 6am tomorrow morning (technically later), i felt obligated to login to jwn and write to you.

  i thought about saying many things.

  hurtful things.

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  Recovery

  I'm sorry I am just not inclined to believe Bethel tales about rape, murder, suicide, and things of that sort. I have many friends and family at Bethel, and have gone myself as a temporary volunteer and I will not be easily convinced of this negative horror cultish control slave-like factory it is painted to be.
• 
  35

  Dear Recovery...

  by OneDayillBeFree in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it is 3am here and i just finished reading your last post and even though i have to be up at 6am tomorrow morning (technically later), i felt obligated to login to jwn and write to you.

  i thought about saying many things.

  hurtful things.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  I always enjoy your posts ChristAlone. You strike me as someone sincere and honest. I encourage you to post more frequently if you are able.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  I do not wish to engage in such a discussion about 1975/my personal life/1919/wrong teachings by the WT/Gilead/etc etc etc.

  When people attempt to go off topic, I will simply just repost the questions that continue to go unanswered.