Recovery

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Posts by Recovery

• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

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• 

  Recovery

  Here's the way this thread is going to go just like the last thread about inconsistencies in the bible that you were buried on. That thread was merely my way of collecting all arguments against the Bible in one place so I could save time. 1. You throw some crap argument out there and make a bunch of noise for attention. No crap arguments thrown out here. All of them from the Bible and a little thing called common sense. 2. You finally get some attention by way of solid arguments from members of this forum. 3. You ignore the counter arguments, and go on to another thread for more attention. The purpose of my Bible Inconsistencies thread was not to debate/rebuttal any counterarguments. So there was no ignoring on my part. BTW...weren't you supposed to create threads about every inconsistency in the bible from that other thread which were brought to your attention? I noticed that you never did follow through wit that? Are you not an individual of your word? Just because I have not done so yet, does not mean I will not. It is something that requires extensive research and much time. And I think most JW's are more likely to be mislead by jwfacts arguments rather than a supposed Biblical inconsistency. So this has my priority. Will anyone address these points? 1. The logical fallacy/double standard displayed when using the WT in your argument 2. The use of the greek words that form the phrase "great crowd" being ambiguous and used in numerous circumstances, and thus not making an automatic connection of Revelation 7 and 19 3. The ten common terms listed really not being that common at all. 4. The context and setting from the very beginning of Revelation 7 and how there is no change in setting. 5. How God will spread his tent and dwell with those who are already residing in heaven, before his throne and in his temple. Or are we going to get more ad hominem attacks, more irrelevant hypothetical what if questions, and more attempts at sidetracking the issue into 607/1914/Biblical errancy/anything else to divert the issue at hand?
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  In case you are having a hard time finding them here they are:

  1. The logical fallacy/double standard displayed when using the WT in your argument

  2. The use of the greek words that form the phrase "great crowd" being ambiguous and used in numerous circumstances, and thus not making an automatic connection of Revelation 7 and 19

  3. The ten common terms listed really not being that common at all.

  4. The context and setting from the very beginning of Revelation 7 and how there is no change in setting.

  5. How God will spread his tent and dwell with those who are already residing in heaven, before his throne and in his temple.

  Please proceed.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  I will address your point when you start addressing mine.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  I am going to show how the use of NAOS to debunk the earthly great crowd doctrine is also in error. Maybe by the time I'm done typing someone can offer something of substance. It's easy to cut and paste and regurgitate someone else's argument. But it's an entirely different thing as this thread shows to defend them when they are challenged. I guess this makes exJWs guilty of the same thing they say JW's are.....helpless without the WT. Or in this case, helpless without jwfacts.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  Maybe you can start by addressing the setting of Revelation 7. Or how the use of great crowd does not automatically correlate Revelation 7 and 19. Or how quoting various WT's to help your argument is simply fallacious. Or how your list of the ten terms specific to the anointed aren't really that specific at all.

  I am glad onlookers can see how no one will address the points and most people are simply not interested 'in the truth about the truth'. This sums up the viewpoint of opposers of JW's. 'Me know a lot of stuff. Watchtower bad.' *proceeds to copy and paste an argument from jwfacts* and then *refuses* to change his/her viewpoint just as long as JW's are proven wrong, even if it means ignoring all other evidence.

  But I do not do this for the sake of exJWs. I do this for the sake of JW's.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  I do not wish to get sidetracked into such a discussion about 607/1914. It is clearly not the subject of this thread and is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

  So....373 views, 33 posts (9 of which from myself)...and no one has offered a rebuttal to my arguments. Who's really out of their league?
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  Rather be in hades, I believe both 607 and 1914 to be factual and scriptural dates. But I'd rather not change the subject.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery

  The article makes another erroneous statement. It states:

  "The Watchtower describes its history of this doctrine with misleading statements to support their new light theory. For example the following quote makes it appear that many Bible Students felt they were in line for an earthly resurrection.

  "Prior to the 1930's, many of God's people were somewhat uncertain about their hope for future life. Some had thoughts about heavenly life but were fascinated by Bible teachings about a paradise earth." Watchtower 2001 January 15 p. 1"

  Yes there were many JW's that believed that they were of an earthly class (Jehonadabs) and that is why the WT mentions many were happy and surprised when the great crowd was revealed to be an earthly class. Other WT statements clearly show that the Bible Students had many expectations regarding the future of the earth.

  "As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized."Millions Now Living Will Never Die p.89

  "Hence these faithful men may be expected on earth within the next few years." The Harp of God p.340

  The chief thing to be restored is the human race to life.... being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth."Millions Now Living Will Never Die p.88

  Another inaccurate and misleading mischaracterization of what JW's believed.
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery
• 
  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Recovery