Posts by Seeker4

5

You asked for it by the way you dressed.

by tyydyy in

jw
friends

does the thinking of the borg still define your morals and ethics?

has leaving the witnesses changed your views on some of the 'rules' or are they the same?

is the lack of discipline still the reason for teenage violence?.

Seeker4

I think you're aware, from a different thread you and I talked on, that a LOT of my thinking on morals and ethics has changed remarkably since leaving the Witnesses. My "views on the rules" have totally changed.

But I do remember some brothers who actually thought that the way a person was dressed could be an "invitation to be raped." Even as a Witness elder I had NO stomach for that bullshit! There is some deeply instilled mindless chauvinism among the brothers.

I've found myself rethinking the whole ethics thing from beginning to end. I've found the issues are much more complex than simplistic thinking allows for. While lack of discipline and choice of entertainment can be factors in some of these issues, they are certainly not the only ones, nor the most important. And I also think that we live in a world that we see as much more violent than it is.

For example, after Columbine, there was this huge concern about violence in schools. Yet it was shown that violence in schools had actually been decreasing. In another post I wrote about a professor who questioned his students about how often a cop in Chicago fires in his gun in the line of duty. Even the most thoughtful student assumed it was at least once a year. The facts? ONCE IN HIS CAREER.

I think the Witnesses in particular dwell on this myth of things getting SO MUCH WORSE as the end nears.

Sorry I digressed a bit there!
S4

48

Turn back on God because of WTS or JW's??

by IWish4Truth in

jw
friends

in my opinion, it's one thing to not agree with organizations that impose certain rules upon it's members, but it's quite another to turn one's back on god himself because of disagreements.

is there not still some higher power out there who has the best interest of humans at heart?

how can it be denied, especially in these terrible times, that something or someone is gonna have to step in and take over and end this havoc.

Seeker4

RR,

Your comment to Sean puts in a nutshell the problem with your god. He's such a peevish, grumpy, insecure little fellow, always demanding to be obeyed and threatening death and destruction to any who would do otherwise or dare question him. A REAL god would simply have to be a cut above these worst of human qualities. But I'm afraid that your god simply reflects the saddest attributes of his creators - scared, arrogant, grumpy, cruel and power hungry little men who rule, not by wisdom and love, but by threats and coercion.

No, Sean's simple post made more sense, and was more appealing to both the heart and mind, than a thousand of your posts or a million threats from your silly god.

S4

29

do you still want to live forever?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

imagine that chance was offered to you .is it something you still desire?.

i wonder how desriable it would be to live forever.what problems it would bring.would we want to stay married to the same person, would we get to know everyone on earth?.

how would it effect our attitude toward life , would we get anything done knowing there was no rush?.

Seeker4

Would love to live forever - or some reasonable facsimile!

And no great danger of ever getting to know everything. I find the older I get the more I realize that there is so much to learn. There will always be marvelous things to do. And even if I was living in the Afghani mountains in a tent, there would be the challenge of hiking out of there over those ridges, or working my way down into the city to help the new government rebuild my country.

No, living forever doesn't scare me - lately I have been thinking that my greatest fear is that I will die before ever fully realizing anything close to my potential.

S4

14

Deaf Mute Disfellowshippings

by Celtic in

jw
friends

anyone know of anyone who has been disfellowshipped who has deaf and mute impairment?

how did they cope and what support network platform is there for them on leaving?.

peace.

Seeker4

There were some translators who may have been df'd. I think Tim Green who lived at the Natick Assembly Hall for some time was.

Does anyone know what happened with Victor Vigna (not sure of that last name spelling) who was a legend among JW translators? He was from Maine, but worked all over the US for the Soceity.

It has been years since I've seen either of these men, or heard anything about them. Would be interested in knowing what happened to Tim. He was quite a flirt and I think he always thought my wife was such a babe. She is.

S4

16

Pioneering

by ItsJustMe in

just out of curiosity, was anyone here ever a pioneer?

what motivated you to pioneer?

what made you get off the list?

Seeker4

These posts have really made me think. I was a true believer from my early years, and between regular and auxilary, have probably at least 12 years of pioneering under my belt. I pioneered for about 7 years as an elder with three young kids.

Yeah - I was really into it. Even taught several pioneer schools, believe it or not.

What did I think about it? I really enjoyed being with the friends. I got to know the congregation very well. Enjoyed being with everybody, especially the kids. But I did not especially like the house to house work, as I saw it as basically an arrogant, condescending activity, even though I was very good at it. My heart was seldom in it, and less so as I saw what a waste of time and energy it was. In my last year or so I found myself literally going months without talking to someone at the door.

I can remember the relief I always felt when we headed for break or for home. I realize now that I was totally making myself do this. It was not done for the joy of the work. At least two years before I left the Witnesses I decided I simply couldn't go h-to-h anymore. It was when they changed that statement in the purpose of the Awake! - 1994 I think. I felt we needed to start going to people and apologizing for lying for the previous 70 years!

I think now about where I would be in some ways if I'd put the energy I gave to pioneering into some of the other things I've wanted to do with my life. I don't cry about it - nothing can be changed. But it was such a huge waste in so many ways. The friendships and the people I may have helped in some ways during those years - no regrets there.

S4

61

the intellectual laziness in jh, ks & follo...

by elke in

jw
friends

the words: intellectual laziness.

recognize this trait?

ahhh,many who apostasies from the one truth, shall we say ,adopts this trait-and transforms into epitomies of intellectual laziness...they construct the premise there is no true god to mislead others...they proceed to construct arguments to support these prefabricated conclusions with the building blocks of false logic...they convince intellectually lazy individuals the odds of a creators existence are remote...a lie recognizable to any form of honest intelligence.. craig rusbult, ph.d. explains why god refuses to provide irrefutable proof in his existence on the web page http://www.asa3.org/asa/education/views/proof.htm - "although it isn't stated directly in the bible, god seems to prefer a balance of evidence: there is enough reason to believe if we want to believe, but not enough to intellectually force belief against our will.

Seeker4

I've really enjoyed this discussion. Abaddon, well done as always.

And Elke, I have to tell you straight up that a post that intends to attack "intellectual laziness" in others should not be filled with spelling and grammatical errors, nor should it be so poorly put together and so obviously unedited. If English is not your native tongue, I apologize in advance. If it is - shame on you!

And Tina - 180-200 IQ, eh!?! Beauty AND brains. NICE combination.
S4

24

Are you stable? (Mentally, that is)

by ashitaka in

jw
friends

ok.....any response will do, but if you're going to post a funny one, please also type your real thoughts along with it.. as for me, i'm pretty wild, but stable.

i never mention or show my fears; especially if my wife is around.

i can't bear to make her nervous.. ashi

Seeker4

Stable as hell. My worst down days are better than most folks best up days. But normal? No way! A bit of a wild man, myself. But essentially no fears, no phobias, no depression, no chemcial imbalances that can't be adequately adjusted with wine or beer (joking folks!), and no whining self-pity about my lot in life.

This despite perhaps more than my share of genuine tragedies. I find lots of humor and laughter a wonderful anti-depressant. Life, even at its worst moments, is also often very funny.

And Iwish4truth - sorry, there is no such thing as thinking too much. We're goddamn thinking machines. I've read your posts. You WORRY and agonize over stuff too much. I think you need MORE genuine thinking!!

S4

15

WT depicts World Trade Center as tool of devil

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

the watchtower depicted the world trade center as a tool of the devil.. http://www.thetruthhurts.freeservers.com/wtc.htm.

i'm working on some new pages of interesting cuts from the watchtower's book, revelation: its grand climax at hand!.

suggestions welcome.. exjws.net.

Seeker4

I just checked out the p. 52 illustration in my own copy of the Rev book. The WTC is there clear as day. It's uncannily reminiscent of what they looked like as they collapsed on Sept 11.

Maybe we can get the WTS to redo the new Awake! with that as the cover illustration!! What hypocrisy.

Thanks Randy.
S4

48

Turn back on God because of WTS or JW's??

by IWish4Truth in

jw
friends

in my opinion, it's one thing to not agree with organizations that impose certain rules upon it's members, but it's quite another to turn one's back on god himself because of disagreements.

is there not still some higher power out there who has the best interest of humans at heart?

how can it be denied, especially in these terrible times, that something or someone is gonna have to step in and take over and end this havoc.

Seeker4

I must echo some of the above posts - Iwish4truth sounds like where I was when I first started questioning the JWs ten years ago. At this point you have essentially two places to go. Or perhaps I should say you have a choice of staying where you are or moving to the next level.

You can chose a real transformation of consciousness, a radical step up in your world-view. It doesn't mean totally rejecting all that you believe now, but it does require recognizing its limitations and expanding your thinking beyond them. I'm afraid that fundamental and literal religion, especially fundamental Christianity, will have to be shed if you're going to take that step.

Or you can merely seek a new translation of the same level of consciousness that you had as a Witness. That seems to be what RR and some of these others are offering you. The same deadend fundamentalism.

A genuine spiritual transformation will require that you grow up though. Whining about what terrible times we live in and how powerless we are and how we need the Big Daddy God to come and make everything right for us are the hallmarks of the low tier of consciousness where JWs and fundamentalists of all stripes find themselves stuck. It feels like it's a safe place to be because it presents the world in such black and white terms, and sees that higher power out there somewhere who will fix it all for us as long as we all obey the rules and rigidly follow the code.

It's essentially a literal interpretation of myths that were meant to be understood as metaphor.

A genuine integral transformation will bring you into a much more complex world, one filled with all the colors and not just black and white. It will require that you stand on your own two feet, that you stop whining, and that you face a world that is both wonderful and tragic with great personal courage and integrity.

Are you ready to move ahead in your spiritual growth? I have no idea. If some of the things I've written here, or that JT or Abaddon have written, strike a chord with you, then maybe you're ready to really make a transformation.

If they make no sense to you, or scare you to death, perhaps you need to remain at that safe tier of certainty that you had as a Witness. If so, instead of moving up to a new level of consiousness, you can just gently slide over to a new translation of the old ideas that is more comfortable for you.

But remember that an integral transformation of your world view is not a gentle or easy process. In fact most people seldom make the move because it requires too much honesty, takes us too far from our comfort zone, deals with real truth and not just imagined religious ones. It's just so much easier for most people to simply find new versions of the same old ways of thinking instead of stepping up to a new tier of spirituality.

Good luck. It can be a marvelous - if scary - journey when you start taking responsiblity for you own life.

S4

10

Do you think that...

by crochunter in

jw
friends

some people that come here regularly, do so to rationalize the fact that they have left the organization?.

that's kind of how i feel.

we talk about false prophecies, etc that the wtbts has done in the past, but if you believe the bible is real, isn't someone right?

Seeker4

RunningMan,

You sound like I felt a few years ago. I was trying to still attend meetings for my wife's sake (she's still a JW) but I also found them so depressing and irritating that eventually I just had to stop going.

Like you, I found these websites refreshing. And when I actually started reading the Bible to see what it REALLY said, I got about 18 chapters done. When I got to the part where Jehovah appears to Abraham and they have this big discussion over lunch, I knew I was out of there. When, as a Witness, you read a direct statement like that, and then you immediately have to say, "Well, it really means that an angel of Jehovah appeared to old Abe," then you see that the Bible is a nice book of myths.

S4