Posts by waton

39

Expectation vs Reality

by joey jojo in

.

just wanted to put this out there for any lurkers.. as someone that grew up during the 70s and 80s, we were promised that we would be in the first picture long ago.

if you are still on the fence, please let this sink in for a while..

waton

when Armageddon and the New System was supposed to happen from the year 1914.

s3: why do you say "when", it all was supposed to happen in 1914. Rapture and all.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

waton

rank-and-file partakers seem to have the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) goal of smearing them as posers and/or mentally unstable.I wonder why?

V: If they read their bible, they should know that all should partake, regardless of origin or destiny.

2) The count in the spring equinox thing, shows that their claim "we, the exclusive truth bearer, our meetings prove that " is proven wrong by the count, if the memorial of all meetings is wrong, therefore the anointed generation taught there is wrong.

remember, wt started the OS dont partake deal, in the 1930, ~ 90 years ago, because there were too many partakers. Now, we have again too many partakers. may be

They should re-invent the secondary heavenly class, then the "everlasting life on earth" idea, when it is bound to fail, will not be held against them as false prophets.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

waton

Guarantee they’ll have enough in offshore accounts to have to do that OTWO. Grenada here we come!!

Ds: The move from Warwick to Grenada or the Isle of Wight , from near New Jersey to Jersey would be easy, but

The wt doctrine calls for all anointed sealed partakers to be called to their heavenly reward at the outset of the Great Tribulation, not just the Governing Body, so:

how about the other 14 000? dispersed everywhere, not of the Governing Body? whose' bodies the angels also will have to dispose, off, like -- puff--gone--. and among these might be the real wt victims, with a vow of poverty.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

waton

Why explain that someone who died just a few hours before Joseph was born would not be considered as overlapping, which I assume draws the conclusion that someone who died just a few minutes after Joseph’s birth would be viewed as a contemporary, and then omit to represent that statement on the chart?

GG: They just defined the borders of "lived at the same time" during both birth and death nothing is registered, remembered at those times. and the "other , older, distant anointed " remark on the chart shows that no direct passing of the baton, conferring of secrets, or "passing the "Elijah to Elisha mantle" is involved? remember that old chest nut?so.

when you think about it the two group anointed generation is an old idea ("the 2 prophet classes" warmed over again.

Splane was not talking precision time in our time, he covered centenarians with possibly 20 years overlaps. with bapti in the first groupsm marking th anointing of the later partakers. All partook after all!.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

waton

so to sum up, if you want to debate me, the phantom wt apologist, you have to know what you are up against.

Wt uses 'generation' and 'contemporaries' interchangeably

Their proof text: Exodus 1 : "Joseph and that 'generation' (of contemporaries)

His closest family, his brothers were produced by the ladies in his fathers harem in 10 years ( a very short generation ) *, but some of Joseph's contemporaries lived 110, 120, 145 years. Plenty of time to stretch that overlap into hundreds of years.

The key example of anointed faithful is F Franz died in 1992, ~99 years old, served since 1914, 78 years in bethel. 21 years excluded from overlap time. because it's outside the time of THE generation. David Splane opined that older, longer serving anointed are out there. so,

let us round up those ages: 100 years lifespan, , 20 minimum years at age of anointing (like Franz) Add that 80 years to 1994, that gives you 1974 as the outer dated for the " anointed "going to their heavenly award", the anointed generation to pass away.

That is near the start of the Great Tribulation. and after that rapture, the anointed in heaven will have to be ready by 2075 to ride as immortal warriors into the battle of Armageddon.

My position as wt defender is secure until another 25*, 75. 75 date. so

what is this with squabbling over "soon"." last days" ???,-- see my overlapping wt apologist after 2075, 55 years from now, only then will the numbers l have run out. again. (2 solar eclipses in 2075 bsw, timed to the second, if you are interested in true prophecies)

* Wt predicted the resurrection of the "faithful men of old " Princes" for 1925. a close fit to the 10 year generation batch of brothers.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

waton

they are saying the two groups are one big overlapping generation, and the end will come before the second group passes away

OTWO, No, they are not saying that any more. That was the story when the generation was the general population, destined to be killed at Armageddon,whereas (Millions of Other Sheep will never die). These days, according to Splane, and wt article,

The generation of partakers will pass away, when they are finished overlapping, at the outset of the Great Tribulation, long before all the Things have occurred.

Even Jesus stands corrected.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

waton

Why do they ignore all the other anointed who were alive in 1914 and only focus on Franz in the chart in the video?

GG For wt weiters, any pre -1914 characters are an embarrassment, and not even part of their 1919 F&DS. Forward overlap is bad enough, why add the backflip overlap too?

Splane only named F.Franz, but said other older ones may exist. and

did I mention in defence of wt, that the contemporaries in Joseph's generation lived to 145, 110, 120 years old, just like some people today????? so

dont despair, that would bring the last group of the comtemporary generation well into the 22 century.

I hope you noticed my tongue firmly planted in cheek, hoping for a long lived generation for all.

77

A question about the contemporary generation teaching following a conversation with a JW apologist

by Giles Gray in

i would like to ask the ex-jws on this site to put their ‘apologists hat’ back on for a moment, so that i can go through the overlapping generation teaching in an attempt to make sense of it.

i apologise if these points have already been addressed on this site.a quick background for the reason for my request… having never confronted a jw apologist on the topic, i recently engaged with a jw regarding the official understanding of a ‘generation’ and unfortunately he didn’t have an answer to the points i was making.

i was left a little confused as to what the official jw response would/should be.so i was hoping that my thoughts below might be considered from an apologist’s perspective.the point in question relates to this section of the watchtower article below from 2008, as well as the jw.org video explanation of the overlapping generation:---:w08 2/15[box on page 25] can we calculate the length of “this generation”?the word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event.

waton

I once argued, to my satisfaction for the Superior authorities of Rom 13 to be no other then J No.1 and Jesus , the very day I later found out reading my just arrived wt that it was not so, Babylon the great had it right. so

let me defend the wt teaching:

The F& DS teaches the 2 groups making up the current anointed generation. But is it not true, that these groups, this generation lives alongside a much larger group of contemporaries that are not partakers?

Did not Brother Splane mention that among the anointed 'brothers' might be even hardy individuals living longer, or (getting anointed earlier) than the late president? who served' from 1914 to 1992, 78 years ?

Could we not find in literature, broadcasts example for "contemporaries " being called "generation" stretching a long way? I am thinking of me, being born during the 'great depression' suffered the consequences. but people that lived through that calamity also were at the end, not the beginning of of their long lives. Were we, these not my contemporaries? could not Joseph's "generation " have been made up of such groups too, when they entered Egypt? so:

A young zealous 'Bethelite partaker' could have easily shared Brooklyn air with Old Br. Franz in 1992, be his contemporary, be part of that generation of that kind of witnesses with great 'understandings' and 'faith". so:

what are you complaining about? this generation sharing the time around 1992 will last at least 78 years from then, perhaps even to 2075. remember that number?

23

Gerrit Loesch video from this week's meeting

by neat blue dog in

he talks about how a group of 5,000 broke away from the organization due to distrust of government agents infiltrating the jws.

they weren't regarded as apostates, just distrustful.

he uses phrases like "their leader" and "his elders", and how they had a meeting with the governing body and made the decision for all these thousands to reintegrate them into the jws, splitting them up among congregations.

waton

Ir was easy for commies to fake belief in a paradise Earth, they too taught a worker paradise to be established worldwide by hard work, killing of opposers. sounds familiar? and under educated, bullying leaders.

even the Nazis had their 1000 year Reich and the 144 columns.

23

Gerrit Loesch video from this week's meeting

by neat blue dog in

he talks about how a group of 5,000 broke away from the organization due to distrust of government agents infiltrating the jws.

they weren't regarded as apostates, just distrustful.

he uses phrases like "their leader" and "his elders", and how they had a meeting with the governing body and made the decision for all these thousands to reintegrate them into the jws, splitting them up among congregations.

waton

The sad part is, that each and all that would support the material smuggled ,mimeographed , would be disfellowshipped to day. Good bye to the claim be wt writers to be for the guardian and dispenser of 'enduring truth for the eternal creator'.

all these sacrifices for what? a false hope.

The mood of the video reflected that G. Loesch realizes that the idea of this wt ideal ist geloescht. Fervent hope extinguished.