Posts by scholar

100

Where did 607 come from?

by MrFreeze in

okay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.

even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.

the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1389

Are you saying that Jehovah is not the God of True Prophecy and has no interest in Prophecy or its Revelation?

Read the literature published by apostates, scoffers and higher critics and examine their attitude towards the Bible.

There is nothing erroneous about the Gentile Times ending in 1914 CE for the events at that time and since proves the matter.

Yes you can use an imperfect chronology adjusted by twenty years because all chronologies are imperfect or in short, fallible. All of the pieces do indeed fit together and that is why Bible chronology works whereas others fail.

Your chronology trivializes the Bible, ignores prophecy and theology it indeed at the very least has a margin of error of at least one year but it is worse than that because at least twenty years is manifest.

What I am saying is that Young is a scholar who has written ground-breaking articles on the importance of Methodology in the construction of Chronology. His efforts are to be commended but as yet his chronology remains his opinion and his conclusions thereof have not received acclamation from other serious scholars who enjoy the fame of scholarship, widely publihed and recognized.

I beg to differ, it was scholar who first introduced Young on this board and this was before COJ referred to him at Channel C and if my memory is correct it was only the context of COJ mentioning the names of scholars who supported 587 BCE. Scholar was also the first person who introduced the concept of Methodology as a requisite in Chronology and came across Young's articles which elaborated for the first time in scholarship this subject.

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1382

Stubborn Yes, Baloney No. For if it was baloney then nobody would bother with me.My postings over many years with the same and new information and insights have produced an audience. That can not be baloney by any measure.

Jeremiah in his entire prophecy is replete with vivid poetic descriptions of the desolation of Judah, its Temple, its city and the inhabitants. It is the theme of that book and yet you people still do not get it.

Daniel was a contemporary of those events as was Ezekiel, Ezra was a historian. These men knew what was happening, they simply reoded events that have become history. Josephus also an historian of some not supported these views. The evidence is cumulative and holistic in that the seventy years was a definite period of desolation, exile in Babylon, servitude to Babylon from the Fall of Jerusalem until the Return to Jerusalem. When will the pennies drop?

Zechariah the prophet referred twice to that past event and used that as lesson of history as a context for his prophecy just as Daniel did in his prayer recorded in the ninth chapter of his book.

Josephus made one reference to fifty years whereas all of the other reference by him were to seventy years. Either a copyist mistake ot Josephus was referring to a state of obscurity at fifty years within the duration of seventy years. I some how prefer the latter IMHO.

Babylonian history or Chronicles have nothing to say whatsoever about the seventy years. Its silence on this vital piece of Judean and Babylonian history is quite telling.

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

garyneal

Post 1373

Nowhere in the Bible does it state that the seventy years ended in 539 BCE. This is simply an interpretation just as it is with the statement that the seventy years ended in 537 BCE for this also is an interpretation. Chronology is about two things: Methodology and Interpretation. The seventy years as to its nature and chronology is also interpretation. Plain and Simple.

Your tabulation of Jeremiah 25 is flawed becuase you must recognize that verses 9-11 is addressed to Judah and verses 12-14 is addressed to Babylon. What these two sections have in common is the seventy years for this is the 'fulcrum' of both sets of prophecies. Also your first section makes no mention of Judah making the theme of that section Babylon as is the case with the second section this is another mistake. Judah and its inhabitants is the subject of the first section and Babylon is the subject of the second section.

Your analysis that the seventy years ended in 539 BCE is read into the text by you and there is nothing in the text that suggest your viewpoint. In fact the text has nothing to say about what the ending of the seventy years as such. We have to read Jeremiah 29:10 which tells us more about the event and timing of the seventy years. Further, Ezra, Daniel , Zechariah and Josephus quite clearly show that the seventy years ended in 537 BCE with the Return from Exile.

scholar JW

100

Where did 607 come from?

by MrFreeze in

okay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.

even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.

the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1383

Jehovah is very happy with 607 BCE because it pays attention to prophecy and that is what distinguishes us from apostates, scoffers and higher critics is that they do not value prophecy nor are they lovers of God's Word. The date 607 BCE is correct because it works, it succeeds, it began the Gentile Times ending in 1914 CE.

Yes you can use an imperfect chronology for indeed all chronologies are not perfect or infallible for it is simply working with the best data available and with an appropriate methoidology you have BINGO, a chronology.

Yes we use all the of the avaialble data to calculate and validate 607 BCE both in terms of its chronology and its historicity. You must remember that chronology is simply the framework of history so all of the pieces must fit together. Your chronology is flawed on many counts, the methodology is prone to error, it trivializes or ignores the seventy years, indifferent to prophecy and theology and its history is also flawed. The result is no precise calender year for the Fall.

Yes, Young resolved the problem to his satisfaction that 587 BCE was the most likely suspect but even up to the present it has not overtaken 586 BCE championed by more serious scholars. Also, do not forget it was scholar who drew attention to his research on this forum. You should say Thanks, scholar!

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

garyneal

Post 1365

You are mistaken for there are numerous sources that prove the correct interpretation of Jeremiah and they are Ezra, Daniel, Zechariah and Josephus. All of these souces refer to Jeremiah's propnecy of the seventy years and the collectively demonstrate that the seventy years was aperiod of desolation, exile and servitude to Babylon.

In reference to your second question regarding verses 12-14 these words refer to Babylon the city, its ruler and the land of Chaldea. This propnecy relates to the fate of this nation both ot its immediate Fall in 539 BCE and its eventual devastation in the straits of times. The prophecy began its fulfillment after 539 BCE or to be more technically correct after 537 BCE when the seventy years had been fulfilled.

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1365

Jerermiah 25:9-11 most plainly states that Judah would not only serve Babylon for seventy years but wouls also be desolate for seventy years therefore the entire population would also be in exile for that same period. Such a honest account of history is also proved by the testimony of Ezra, Daniel, Zechariah and Josephus. Jeremiah in that prophecy also decreed that the Nations would also be made to serve Babylon but their respective histories in respect to Babylon does not supply any detailed chronology or history that refer to any specific fulfillment of a definite seventy year prophecy.

scholar JW

100

Where did 607 come from?

by MrFreeze in

okay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.

even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.

the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1379

I have received no vision or direct revelation but Jehovah has revealed such matters to His Church, Elect, Body of Christ, Christian Congregation, Faithful and Discreet Slave and the 'celebrated WTY scholars by means of Revelation such process involves God's Inspired Word and Holy Spirit.

The date 607 BCE is firmly established, Neo-Babylonian Chronology with some fine-tuning can be utilized in support of that date.

The problem of indecision or uncertainty concerning 586 or 587 BCE is due to the biblical data because the celebrated WT scholars use the same biblical data arriving at a specific calender date, 607 BCE. Your problem is 'methodology' freely admitted to by Rodger's Young's article.

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

garyneal

Post 1356

The answer to your question is simply found in Jeremiah 25:9-11 where it refers quite plainly to the fact that the seventy years was a period of desolation, exile and servitude to Babylon. This view of matters conforms to what Ezra, Daniel and Zechariah had to say about the matter and is also proven by the many references to the seventy years made by Josephus.

scholar JW

100

Where did 607 come from?

by MrFreeze in

okay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.

even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.

the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1370

Apart from Jehovah's Witnesses and their Apologists there remains the most Supreme supporter of 607 BCE for the Fall and that is no less than the Great Chronologist and Timekeeper, Jehovah God. It matters little if even all the scholars in the world do not recognize this sacred date because this date is firmly established upon the God's Infallible Word, Secular History and Neo-Babylonian Chronology with a slight adjustment of twenty years.

You and all fellow apostates and higher critics have one big problem and that is your inability to determine with absolute certainty a precise calender year for the Fall and until you and your 'suspects' can do this then your credibility is nought. You have a lot of work to do!

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1369

None of those possibilities accord with Scripture and history for these are simply interpretations which are contradictory and meaningless. It seems that you regard Jeremiah as silly whern he simply prophesied that Judah would lie desolate for seventy years just as those false prophets in his day made similar accusations.

scholar JW