Posts by scholar

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

I have sent an email to Rolf Furuli concerning the implication of the summer solstice mentioned in VAT 4956. In the meantime my research has shown that such solstices were not observed but calculated, the opinion of a number of scholars and astronomers as noted by Furuli for the solstice mentioned in VAT 4956'

Also, Ihe said scholar came across an interesting comment regarding the Babylonian Calendar: "Since the need for the extra month was probably determined by observation made by officials who had political interests and political power, we may be sure that the assignment of the extra month was somewhat erratic. It has been estimated that the first day of the year might have come any time from the middle of March to the middle of June in middle Babylonian times". The Crimes Of Claudius Ptolemy, Robert R. Newton, 1977, p.396.

Very interesting!!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

The solstice on 9 Simanu in Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year corresponds to 29 June 568 BCE, exactly as expected and completely correct. Well that was easy. Quite a conundrum for the JW version though

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At this stage, this is only your own personal opinion for WT critics have no mention of this which perhaps is quite telling as to whether this observation has any significance. The said scholar will solve this matter in due course as this is what scholar does.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

If your favourite apostate says the solstice occurred on 9 July, he’s simply wrong. And if he says VAT 4956 must be an elaborate fake, he’s veering into conspiritard territory, and also invalidating his own efforts to make it appear consistent with 588 BCE.

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Let us not be presumptuous on this matter for the said scholar will contact expert Furuli but scholar will also make his own inquiries and research into this matter but is somewhat bemused that this matter has escaped the attention of critics such as COJ.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

It’s not merely ‘my position’. 🙄 And it’s 15 Simanu, not 3, which can literally never be 15 July in any year of the neo-Babylonian period, for the same reasons that Nisan can never begin in May and the solstice can never be in July. So much for “WT scholars”. The only option for the JW position, despite their 2011 claim that researchers found it consistent with 588BCE, is to claim VAT 4956 ‘must be all wrong after all’. 🤦‍♂️

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The corrected typo for the tablet indicates that it is the 15th Simanu, the 3rd month for that lunar eclipse.which means it fell on the 15 JULY 588 BC- Julian calendar. Therefore, this means that 1 Simanu must have begun 30 July, 588 BC and the new year beginning with the first month Nisanu is pushed forward to May 2/3 588 BC. The matter of the solstice mentioned in 9 Simanu is yet to be resolved which is a question not only for WT scholars but also for its critics. So, let us hear from the critics as to why this matter has not been discussed.

scholar JW

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362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

What we actually have is an eclipse on 5 July 568 BCE but that is asserted by JWs to have occurred on 15 July 588 BCE (which is impossible because Simanu never starts in July), and a summer solstice 6 days earlier which necessarily occurred within a day of 29 June regardless of the chosen year anywhere during the neo-Babylonian period, once again showing the JW interpretation to be impossible. All of the events, as well as the required intercalary month preceding Nisan, perfectly fit 568 BCE.

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A nice summary of your position but WT scholars have shown that the lunar eclipse described in VAT 4956, 3 Simanu according to the Julian calendar would be 15 July 588 BC and that the New Year would have begun 2/3 May. The solstice 9th Simanu mentioned in the tablet is dated six days earlier thus would be 9 July 588 BC. No doubt much debate about this new research with continuing controversy but WT scholars are quite relaxed and comfortable about such controversies and so is the said scholar.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Thank you and now the said scholar can pursue the issue with the expert, Dr. Rolf Furuli

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

I have no problem at all. The solstice falls on exactly the expected date of 29 June 568BCE. You really should stop relying on nutters like Furuli.

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This is not what I asked for. If you cannot or choose not to give the date of the solstice for 588BC then the said scholar will dismiss your conundrum regarding it as inapplicable then there will be no need to seek the advice of an expert such as Rolf Furuli.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

In order for the said scholar to resolve your problem it is required that the specific date for that solstice for 588 BC be clearly established as mentioned in VAT 4956 now that it is known that the following lunar eclipse 15 Simanu is the 15 July 588 BC -Julian calendar then the said scholar can contact Rolf Furuli for his comment on the relationship between a solstice and an eclipse in terms of Chronology.

Scholar hastening to resolve this conundrum!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

he... 15th... is 6 days after the... 9th.

The... solstice.. on the... 9th... is necessarily... within a day of 29 June.

6... days... after... 29 June... is... 5 July.

It is physically impossible for the eclipse in question to occur on 15 July.

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What a fascinating conundrum you have posited for now we have a lunar eclipse dated 15 July 588 BC and the solstice on the 9th of the 3rd month which is believed to be on 29th June 588 BC? The said scholar needs some serious scholarly assistance to resolve this matter methinks something is rotten here but the said scholar will investigate this matter further and find the source of the 'smell'.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Vintage

"According to the translation of the VAT 4956 tablet, during Year 37, Month 1 of Nebuchnezzar, King of Babylon, Saturn was in front of the Swallow. The Swallow is the region of the night sky we now call Pisces. The night sky is divided into 12 regions. Saturn passes through all of them on its 29.4 year-long orbit.

"That means that Saturn takes 2.42 years to move through each of the 12 constellations. Once Saturn moves out of Pisces, it will not return there for another 27 years. According to Babylonian astronomers, Saturn was in Pisces in Nebuchadnrzzar's 37th year which astrologists set at 568 BCE.

"Running our SkySafari Plus program and setting the time and date to Friday, April 22, 568 BC, 1:00 AM, location: Baghdad, we get an image showing the planet Saturn within the Pisces (Fish) constellation (Figure 16)."

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Furuli in his Assyrian, Babylonian And Egyptian Chronology, Vol.2, 2007 in 'Table C.2 shows the positions of Saturn according to Line 1-2 in VAT 4956 and finds against 568 BC in comparing that with the data for 588 BC but such is problematic for a number of reasons. At best the planetary is ambiguous due to a number of pertinent factors.

acholar JW

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