Posts by scholar

248

H. Hunger Reviews R. Furuli's "Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian Chronology, Volume II"

by AnnOMaly in

a long-awaited review by professor h. hunger, foremost authority on babylonian astronomical cuneiform tablets, of dr. r. furuli's assyrian, babylonian, and egyptian chronology.

volume ii of assyrian, babylonian, egyptian, and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible is now available to read for anyone who is interested.

you can find it at http://goto.glocalnet.net/kf4/reviewhunger.htm.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1500

Hunger's review is most interesting and merits close examination and should be compared with the 5 part review by Carl Jonsson with both reviews featured on the same website. It is my expectation that Hunger's review whatever format is presented should be published in a respected academic journal in order to give his Review a measure of respectability and integrity.

It is my intention to advise Furuli of both these Reviews so that he can respond to these when and how he sees fit for really it is Furuli who is best able to either benefit from such critiques one way or the other. For scholars indeed benefit greatly when their work is examined by such scholars as Hunger one of his peers.

My overall criticism of Hunher's approach to Furuli is that of Methodology for Hunger fails to appreciate the simple fact that the whole purpose of Furuli's thesis was to compare Ancient Chronologies with that of the Bible which indded is the very title of Furuli's book. I have already written to Hunger pointing out to him this obvious flaw in his approach.

Hunger fails to appreciate the issue of the integrity of the VAT 4956 raised by Furuli in a somewhat technical manner at the end of his critique. Hunger it seems fails to pay close attention to the evidence presented by Furuli. Readers of these articles need to appreciate that we have a dispute between two experts, Furuli, an expert on ancient languages and Hunger, an expert on archeo-astronomy. Therefore, it is not surprising that different sets of eyes will differ as to interpretation of the same evidence under examination.

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

garyneal

Post 1443

Not so. By accepting 539 BCE and using the biblical data then one can easily determine that 537 BCE is the only realistic date for the Return and this is also agreed by most scholars. Garyneal, Balck Sheep and Alan F had various theories but nothing that was stated by them undermined the certainty of 537 BCE.

I do not argue in circles for it it is unnecessary for me to do so. To be precise it is the latter because Jeremiah specifically stated that the judgement on Babylon only began after the seventy years whnich was 537 BCE but the spirit of Jerrmiah's prophec y was that Babylon would be punished and its Fall in 539 BCE was certainly punishment.

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

garyneal

Post 1400

The referred passages follow on from after the seventy years because in context Ezra 36: 22 immediately follows on after the fulfilling of the seventy years as described in verse 21.

It is impossible for the seventy years to end in 539 BCE because in that year the Jews were still in Babylon and you are quite incorrect in claiming that secular historical information and scripture support this viewpoint. Celebrated WT scholars and myself would argue to the contrary.

There is nothing 'fuzzy' about 537 BCE ending the seventy years for it is confirmed by Scripture and secular historical evidence.

The King of Babylon was punished in 539 BCE but Jeremiah also foretold in that same text that Babylonia would be made desolate and that did not happen in 539 BCE.

Celebrated WT scholars have shown a differend date for Neb's acc and first regnal year and does not agree with 605 BCE.

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

garyneal

Post 1391

Details of the Return are found at 2 Chronicles 36:22-23 and Ezra 1:1-3:6. Such narrative gives a complete account of the history and chronology for the return to Jerusalem from Babylon.

That is a matter of opinion that 609 BCE began the dominance of the Babylonian World Power for other scholars would prefer 605 BCE.Both dates of 609 and 605 BCE are unsuitable candidates for the beginning of the seventy years because these dates are simply too 'fuzzy' to be of any value historically.

scholar JW

100

Where did 607 come from?

by MrFreeze in

okay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.

even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.

the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1401

'Bunkum' well describes your pitiful efforts in discrediting the validity of 607 BCE.

No, I did not learn of Young's article from COJ but found it from my own research.

Chronology is after all a product of Methodology and Interpretation so any chronology does indeed 'suit a purpose' whatever that may be and that is what all scholars do.

Russell's chronology also included material concerning the Life and Death of our Lord and this chronology has been widely accepted within scholarship. His chronology has not been proved wrong at all but has been confirmed with a little 'fine tuning' to be a correct chronology of both the OT and the NT. Any chronology must be a'work in progress' as is true of all scientiofic knowledge.

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

garyneal

Post 1383

The only indication of this is contained in the context of the previous verses, the reference made later in 29:10 but more importantly it is indicated by the phrase'when the seventy years have been fulfilled".

Nowhere does the Bible state the length of time of the journey home but it certainly indicates that it took some months and that they had returned home by the seventh month of 537 BCE which is also endorsed by scholarship.

The circumstances of the return are more described in the last chapter of 2 Chronicles and the earlier chapters of Ezra and this serves as the basis for the chronology of the Return.

The problem of 609 BCE is that nothing happened in that year, it does not enjoy wide support by scholars for the start of the seventy years and for many other reasons it must be rejected accept for its accuracy as to arithmetic. If you add 539 to 70 then you get a sum of 609.

scholar JW

100

Where did 607 come from?

by MrFreeze in

okay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.

even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.

the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1400

You say that 607 BCE is a 'provable falsehood' but how can this be when the computaion of 607 BCE, the events of biblical history are fully described and it has a prophetic outreach prove beyond doubt that this is the only correct and possible date for the Fall. It is only this date that honours Jehovah as the God of True Prophecy.

COJ did not tip me off regarding Young's article because he never said anything to tip me off. He simply included his name in a long list of other names. COJ has never commented about Young's article either in the past or the present.

WT chronology is not contrived to suit some agenda nor has it ever been so contived as you allege. WT chronology was initially presented to focus on Christ's Second Coming and the nRestoration of all things promised by Jehovah God. This chronology has always had as its objective to be faithful and loyal to the Word of God a matter in which secular chronologies are indifferent to this noble and honourable purpose.

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

garyneal

Post 1378

But this is not what Jeremiah 25:12-14 says for the punishment against the King of Babylon, the nation and the land of Chaldea would only commence after the seventy years was fulfilled and this did not occur until the Jewish Exiles returned home in 537 BCE.

Your reading of Jeremiah 29:10 along with how it is more accurately rendered in the NWT is not inconsistent with the fact that by the time that the seventy years had ended right to the very month, the seventh month Ethanim, the Hews were right at home.

Another big problem that mitigates against 539 BCE ehding the seventy years is the problem of what year did the period begin and thus far the debate largely hinges on 609 or 605 but either date creates a number of obstacles rending the situation hopeless.

The proof that the seventy years ended in 537 BCE is found in Ezra, Daniel and Zechariah because of how these men described the nature of the seventy years as a period of desolation-servitude and exile. Josephus also confirmed this viewpoint as history.

Ann O Maly has done no such thing, she offers nothing new and simply rehashes the same tired old arguments that scholar has debunked many times over many years on this forum.

scholar JW

100

Where did 607 come from?

by MrFreeze in

okay so we've obviously established on this board that 607 is not the correct date that babylon destroyed jerusalem.

even before 1914 came around, the bible students still thought 1914 would be a pivital date.

the only way they can gain that info is from the 7 times or w/e.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1394

If Jehovah is not happy with 607 BCE so pray tell what date is he happy with?

Methinks this is no sweeping generalization but an astute observation on the scholarly literature published over many decades for the simple fact is that most modern scholars subscribe to 'higher criticism'.

No baseless assertion is necessary for the events of modern history confirm the fact of the matter.

Delusion not needed but simply the use of a chronology to suit ones own purposes. If I choose to use Babylonian chronology with a slight adjustment of twenty years then I have every right to do so provided I make such methodology apparent to all.

Your chronology does indeed ignore theology and prophecy for one only has to read such presentations of such chronology to see its 'dead-end aspect'. This is nicely confirmed in COJ's criticism of the Gentile Times and his presentation of secular chronology.

WT chronology has indeed a difference of some twenty years when compared to secular chronology but then all chronologies differ from each other and that is to be expected from different chronologies. Further, your chronology is out by far more than one year because if it is compared to others there are rather significant differences.

the date 586 is more widely endorsed by serious scholars than 587 and this is because of the recognition paid to Edwin Thiele who championed 586 rather than the apostate's date of 587.

I did have a debate with COJ some years ago on Channel C regarding 586/587 and he may have made a brief not of Rodger Young's support of 587 but the issue at hand is who first of all introduced the substance of Young's articles which was Methodology and its importance in Chronology and this was first introduced by scholar who first of all raised the imnportance of this which was later confirmed by Young's seminal articles. Take a bow scholar!

scholar JW

106

Help with another 607 vs 587 question............

by thraxer68 in

ok, this is driving me nuts for whatever reason i cant get past the bolded part.

can someone maybe explain that a little?

if this even makes sense, im usually not t his dense, i've been reading this for ever and for some reason i keep getting thrown off track at that part.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 1388

As I have said many times I post to amuse and defend not to convert. But it is you and your supporters that jump to attention when I post.

The two passages where Jeremiah refers to the seventy years of Judah with desolation-exile-servitude are Jeremiah 25:8-11; 29:10.

Exactly and this is what those men did, all referred to Jeremiah's twin prophecies.

Josephus an historian of some eminence supported these views.

The fifty years of Josephus has been viewed by scholars as a textual error, the other possibility is that he was referring to Berossus on this point or that he was making a observation within the context of the sev enty years whic Josephus describes running from the Fall to the Return.

Give me a break. All of those secular documents make no mention of the seventy years as you well know for if they did you would have used that material.

scholar JW