Posts by doubtfull1799

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

doubtfull1799

I would respectfully disagree with you @Cold Steel.

I HAVE taken courses in OT theology and it doesn't change the fact that God did not always warn people before destroying or king them - remember Uzzah for example? 2 Sam 6:7. And how exactly were the tribes that the Israelites conquered warned by God? He did not speak to them did he, he only prophesied to or warned the Israelites.

You say you have no problem with God destroying people who practised forced prostitution, but it was God himself that condoned such practices. How do you account for the Israelites being instructed by him to take the virgins for themselves as spoils of war? For what purpose other than rape would this be for. Legitimised by forced marriage. Do you really think that a young girl would willingly marry and have sex with a soldier that just slaughtered her whole family in front of her eyes?

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

doubtfull1799

I served as an Elder for many years in a number of congregations so I can answer your questions (from my own experience anyway).

I accepted the position with a genuine desire to teach, help, and care for others. I've worked with many other humble elders who worked hard to do the same without any sense of entitlement, control or power. However I also worked with some others who did act as masters over others and enjoyed a sense of "control" over people. And some who were very bad apples. So I guess its a mixed bag, though in my experience there were more of the former than the latter.

Elders are certainly not above or immune to counsel, only they usually would receive counsel from fellow elders. Though I was certainly on occasions "counselled" (and accepted the counsel) by rank and file members (including sisters).

My relationships with friends did not on the whole change when I was appointed, though some who are not close friends certainly look at you or treat you a bit differently. Some show more respect, others just hate all elders (perhaps because of a bad experience with the bad eggs) so they treated you worse!

Elders report to each other and to the branch office (usually via the Circuit Overseer, but sometimes via direct letter). An anointed member, if they were a sister or a non-appointed brother, would still be subject tot he authority of the Elders.

The anointed ones are no longer members of the F&DS - this was a recent change of doctrine (in 2013 I think), only the GB are now the F&DS.

Elders are called "Brother" not "Elder so and so". Elder is not used as a title... well not in the sense of a descriptive title when referring to an individual. It IS a title describing the position.

Hope that helps?

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

doubtfull1799

Here's another one I was thinking about the other day:

Ephesians 4:29: "Let a rotten word not come out of your mouth, but only what is good for building up as the need may be, to impart what is beneficial to the hearers."

So what do we learn of God's qualities? Hypocrisy. The Bible is full of rotten stuff, not just "positive" things for upbuilding. So why did he not follow his own instructions here ands only impart to his readers what is "beneficial"?

I was speaking to a still in elder the other day, one of my old colleagues, and we were discussing some of the more horrible aspects of the OT (children being mauled by bears, sex slavery, people being hacked to pieces etc) and he admitted he doesn't read them as he finds them upsetting - not upbuilding!

Deut 28:15-57 is a classic example where Jehovah spews out verse after verse of utter "rottenness"

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

doubtfull1799

OK, how about this one from yesterday's Watchtower:

When praised, we do well to apply Jesus' words: "When you have done all the things assigned to you, say: 'We are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.'" (Luke 17:10)

The study goes on to say it would be haughty to accept praise or appreciation, instead we should "speak appreciatively of Jehovah" and what he does for us.

So this scripture teaches us that God is a horrible friend and/or parent. He insists on constant praise & appreciation, but does not show appreciation for others in return. Instead he treats them like slaves, like mere chattel, unworthy of human dignity. Humans need affirmation and acknowledgement, something that God must have designed in us as part of our reflection of His personality, yet as our father he withholds fulfilling that need.

17

Oh wow...now I have seen everything! "Junior Pioneer"??

by stuckinarut2 in

.

doubtfull1799

Oh no, where did you find this?

12

Ritualistic behaviour within the JW faith

by stuckinarut2 in

i was thinking about how the society criticises other faiths such as catholics because of their ritualistic procedures.. but couldn't it be said that witnesses have their own deeply ritualistic behaviours?.

think about the prayers said at meetings.

they all have to follow the same basic style and theme, and include the same basic content.. what about the ritualistic procedures of the memorial, and the passing of emblems - even to the servers and speaker (although they actually handle them more than everyone, they do their own special act of passing them to each other).

doubtfull1799

That silly ritual of passing the emblems back and forward to the speaker and servers always bothered me. I tried many times as an Elder to try and stop it, but was always overruled by the majority!

10

Research Help?

by vienne in

as at least some of you know, i am coauthor of two history books about zion's watch tower's earliest years.

we are at a dead end with one of the watch tower's earliest evangelists, s. d. rogers.

we do not know his first name or have any biography outside of a scattering of newspaper articles and mentions in zwt.

doubtfull1799

Which two books are those vienne? Would be interested to read them (if I haven't already!)

27

Apostasy endorsed in this yesterday's Watchtower Study

by doubtfull1799 in

“there may be occasions when it would be good for us to reconsider a choice or decision.

it could be when the prevailing circumstances change.

jehovah altered his decision at times when circumstances changed.

doubtfull1799

Either 1. The GB are making it up as they go along, or 2. Jehovah is revealing new adjustments to them all the time? If it’s the former, they can’t be trusted, if it's the latter, God can’t be trusted!

27

Apostasy endorsed in this yesterday's Watchtower Study

by doubtfull1799 in

“there may be occasions when it would be good for us to reconsider a choice or decision.

it could be when the prevailing circumstances change.

jehovah altered his decision at times when circumstances changed.

doubtfull1799

“There may be occasions when it would be good for us to reconsider a choice or decision. It could be when the prevailing circumstances change. Jehovah altered his decision at times when circumstances changed. (1 Ki. 21:20, 21, 27-29; 2 Ki. 20:1-5) Or new information may provide us with a valid reason to adjust a decision. King David was given faulty information about Saul’s grandson Mephibosheth. When David later received accurate information, he amended his decision. (2 Sam. 16:3, 4; 19:24-29) At times, it may be wise for us to do similarly.”

Excerpt From: WATCHTOWER. “The Watchtower, March 2017.”

When we discover our association with the CCOJW is based on faulty information, and we find better accurate information, changing our mind about what we believe (apostasy) is the right and proper thing to do.

14

Review of Awake Magazine: Philosophy 101: How to Construct a Logical Syllogism

by Saename in

this morning my brother and my mother (whom i mentioned in my previous topic when we had a conversation about evolution) visited a jehovah's witness, and when they returned, they returned with the awake!

magazine that they received from the witness.

the magazine is entitled, "is the bible really from god?

doubtfull1799

The other problem with that Awake issue is it relies solely on Selection Bias. For every point they cherry pick one or two Bible passages which support the point being made, while ignoring all the other Bible passages that falsify it.