Posts by konceptual99

22

Special Talk from the GB?

by punkofnice in

a current jw told me there was going to be a special talk (tm) from the governing body(r) next month.

apart from the usual hilarious jw tv stuff, i haven't heard of anything.. any info any one?

the jw didn't seem to know much either.

Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

by joe134cd in

a couple of things first: .

-nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

so this brings me to my question.

Reading between the lines, the elders destroyed the letter on the basis that under DPA laws they had no need to keep it. This most likely would either have been after the DF was confirmed by the branch or at the end the year as a result of the yearly reminder to rid the files of as much "superfluous" paperwork as possible. There is of course the chance that once the legal action was initiated the file was checked and purged either unilaterally by the local elders or on instruction from the branch or CO. Who knows...?

As I say, there is plenty of evidence of typical kangaroo tactics by the elders on the JC but for me the question still remains as to what were the circumstances that lead to an accusation being made and could this undermine Mr. Otuo's position and credibility?

22

Special Talk from the GB?

by punkofnice in

a current jw told me there was going to be a special talk (tm) from the governing body(r) next month.

apart from the usual hilarious jw tv stuff, i haven't heard of anything.. any info any one?

the jw didn't seem to know much either.

konceptual99

In the UK it's from the branch. Everyone other than local bethelites will stream the talk to their local hall either in real time or another point over the weekend.

32

Are Witnesses really "Bible Students"?

by stuckinarut2 in

we were always told that as witnesses we were "sincere bible students".... carefully examining the scriptures.. yes, we were indeed taught much about the content of the bible, it's history, prophecies etc..... but it was always from one perspective....that of the society.

when the society changed its interpretations, we had to do the same..... so were we really "bible students", or "society students"?.

just a thought.....

konceptual99

How long have you been a Witness DY?

Surely you must realise by now that the vast majority of mentally in Witnesses will always revert to type when push comes to shove.

Very, very, very nice individuals that will unilaterally shun you for simply trying to agree to disagree.

Very, very, very nice elders that say all the right things in the hall but will stab another elder in the back quick as a flash rather than stick their neck out for what is reasonable.

17

Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

by joe134cd in

a couple of things first: .

-nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

so this brings me to my question.

konceptual99

Thanks for the links DOT. I have already read these and they do paint a picture of typically underhand JW machinations however there are still some details that are not clear to me, specifically the context of the fraud allegation.

Either the whole episode was a complete fabrication or there were a set of circumstances between Mr. Otuo and the elder that led to the accusation. I don't think there is anything available to allow one to understand this context and why the dispute would have arisen in the first place.

I completely see why Mr. Otuo would feel he has been treated unfairly, unjustly and even subjected to slander. There is strong circumstantial evidence that he has been the victim of a less than honourable JC process. One cannot assume, however, that that entitles one to the unconditional support of others. People round here would look pretty stupid if they were to actively support Mr. Otuo and then it become apparent that his actions were not honest and above board.

22

Special Talk from the GB?

by punkofnice in

a current jw told me there was going to be a special talk (tm) from the governing body(r) next month.

apart from the usual hilarious jw tv stuff, i haven't heard of anything.. any info any one?

the jw didn't seem to know much either.

konceptual99

There is special talk from either a GB member or a helper for the UK. It's on a Saturday but congregations can make arrangements to listen to the live stream or a recorded copy later.

I can't remember the date as I was reading New Scientist on my tablet when they made the announcement a few weeks ago but I think it is later this month or in May.

I seem to recall they are incorporating the WT study as well so it will be a 3 hour mini assembly in the hall. Prototype, test bed runs for future changes to the assemblies perhaps?

15

What is R&F

by Drifting Away in

jw
friends

i see the letters r&f often, but i dont know what that stands for..can someone tell me?

tia

konceptual99

Rank and File.

Your average Joe Witness without position or privilege.

17

Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

by joe134cd in

a couple of things first: .

-nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

so this brings me to my question.

konceptual99

To be fair WMF, from my reading of the transcripts Mr. Otuo was accused of fraud by the Witness and this accusation was put in writing to the JC committee. Mr. Otuo never was allowed to see this and now the congregation are saying it was destroyed and have testified to that fact. This is an example of the typical procedural nonsense surrounding JW judicial committees.

The other side of that coin is that I don't recall seeing anything that formally documents the situation between Mr. Otuo and the Witness. AFAIK there is nothing that says there was never a business relationship. Neither is there anything like some kind of contract or agreement. As observers we have no way of knowing what was agreed.

It's fair to say that Mr. Otuo has not faced criminal charges. It's also fair to say the accusation of fraud seem very loose and typical of how the WT likes to create their own definitions. Regardless, I've not seen anything concrete that takes this out the realm of a business agreement gone wrong. I would be more than happy to support Mr. Otuo if there was some proof that the Witness stood to lose money, Mr Otuo had acted in good faith 100% of the time and that to take the side of the Witness would be a gross injustice.

I think there is merit in the argument that the DFing does imply Mr. Otuo was in the wrong and does lead to chatter and gossip. For it to be slander the accusation has to be false and I'm not sure that we are seeing enough of both sides of the story to make that judgement call right now.

I really hope Mr. Otuo is free of any accusation and, if so, can win this battle. All I am asking for is some more clarity on how I can be sure this is the case.

17

Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

by joe134cd in

a couple of things first: .

-nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

so this brings me to my question.

konceptual99

Yes of course I am aware of the court system and how it operates. I am also more than aware of how the elders and the organisation operate kangaroo courts.

I am not calling Mr. Otuo a liar however why would you expect me to support a guy and even spend time to attend court when the circumstances are not clear.

Help me out here and post something that succinctly refreshes the story and presents the facts.

26

WTBTS vs. Islam

by kairos in

jw
friends

the articles and meeting parts have been missing something all along, as far as i can see.. jws are taught to demonize all 'worldly' ( not jws) organizations, individuals and religions as having no value only to be destroyed by god at 'harm-you-gettin'-( armageddon ).. why do they not mention islam?no scathing denouncements?.

the only publication i really remember, was the "mankind's search for god" book that touched on the beliefs and practices of muslims.. why do you think this is the case?.

konceptual99

Which all comes to the same conclusions as far as I can see:

1 - there are only a small minority of Muslims prepared to actually take a stand against core dogma about things like violence and homosexuality that are exploited by extremists and

2 - when push come to shove the majority choose to give at least some tacit support to religiously bound ideas on morality and even violent enforcement of Islam rather than be considered as apostates

"Moderate" Christianity exists only because secularism has become the norm and people don't really care if others want to mix that up with a bit of ritualism on a Sunday. Day to day it makes no difference.

"Moderate" Jehovah's Witnesses don't really exist because at the end of the day there is only one side of the fence to be on.

For what I observe, the same applies to "moderate" Islam. The truly secular Muslim who is only doing it for a bit of traditional and meaningless cultural ritualism is seemingly a very rare beast.