Posts by konceptual99

9

does us Bethel Rachel oily racially reflect the publishers in us

by poopie in

jw
friends

your thoghts racially not oily

konceptual99

Unless you were asking about Rachel Riley?! Oh please god let's have a thread about Rachel Riley!!

Please no. I am on another (non JW) forum that has a VERY long and ongoing thread on Rachel Riley and once started cannot be stopped :-)

39

Does What We Say Here Or In Person Really Help JWs To Get Out Of The Religion?

by minimus in

jw
friends

if we are in the congregation, do you think our comments or questions actually reach elders or others in the congregation?

do our comments on this board affect witnesses to the point of questioning their faith?

I would say there are a handful of sites that, once you start questioning, play a big part in educating and informing one on the other side of the "truth". jwfacts, this site, jwstruggle, 607v587.com, jwsurvey. Youtube is very good as well if you pick your posters. I personally really like apostachick and jwpodcast. I think reddit is good for some but I don't really use it.

For me the other sites are more secular like those debunking {EDIT} creationism (not evolution!), the Flood etc were also pivotal in helping me get over my mental reasoning blocks.

55

JWs and their views on Sex

by campaign of hate in

in the past i have read on this forum that the wt have a say in the "bedroom" of couples.

i thought that was a bit overkill at first, but recently i have come to conclusion that this is true.. the control administered by the wt cooperation on ones sex life is not on only intrusive, its damaging.

they control every aspect of ones thought and action, thus leading most down a path that said corporation wants them to tread.. this path is to get married young, and then eternal loyalty the the organisation.. so how can an organisation force you to get married young?.

konceptual99

Hi Brock - you are spot on. If people are getting married to the wrong partners then you have to ask why and the pressure to conform to the WTS view of morals and who might make a good marriage partner are critical factors in this, as your post describes.

The slight irony in this is that you could argue from an objective perspective that the WTS advice on dating actually does carry some sensible advice. Ignoring the views on sexual conduct and the "spiritual qualifications" then much of what is left of what the WTS says could be decent, secular advice such as discouraging rushing into a relationship, doing so at a young age, ignoring the warning signs of a poor relationship, papering over severely bad personality traits, looking only at physical attractiveness, developing good communication patterns etc.

The problem for the WTS is that all of this "good" advice gets swamped by fact that the majority of the young people it is aimed at are hormones on sticks, have no other outlet for their feelings other than pursuing them and do not have other things to focus their attention on such as getting a good education.

I don't think it is breaking news that choosing the right life partner whatever your beliefs is not an exact science. I have no doubt that the circumstances peculiar to Jehovah's Witnesses adds yet more complexity to this. All the issues and factors you mention have as much resonance now as they would have done 20 or 40 years ago. When I look at the marriages I know that have failed then the culture of dating in the WTS has contributed to people getting married that otherwise almost certainly would not have done. Naturally the problems in the physical, emotional and personal aspects of the relationship are all intertwined but going on the numerous breakups I have witnessed over the years, I cannot point at one where more pre-marital sex or what has (or has not) gone on in the bedroom could really be said to be at the heart of matter.

At the end of the day, however, what you posted is absolutely food for thought and I really hope that there are young people who read it and take notice of the massive impact that looking for love inside the constraints of a WT courtship could have.

10

J.W. Parents Being Conned to Sacrifice Their Kids to the Org!

by The Searcher in

is now really putting the pressure on j.w.

's to "encourage" their pre-pubescent children to "dedicate" themselves to the org by being baptized!.

not only does the bible dismiss such a false directive, the org's own insight book dismisses the suggestion that such young ones are mentally able to make such a decision!

konceptual99

It's coming out through implication in videos directed at kids as well as accounts of young ones being baptised at 10,11,12 during speeches by GB and senior WTS elders at branch visits and conventions. The last example of this is Mark Sanderson talking about a 9 year old being baptised during the branch visit in Germany.

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

konceptual99

Oh and PLEASE read Terry's latest thread. It's brilliant.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/294050001/why-bogus-predictions-changeable-teachings-only-strengthen-jehovahs-witnesses

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

konceptual99

Fusion - I have some sympathy for the thought behind your post. Whatever the faults of the WTS there is little to be gained from throwing logical fallacies back at someone trying to argue for the WTS.

Having said that, a objective analysis of what exactly the WTS changes and how they change it shows time after time after time that they apologise for very little, make zero mention of how 180 degree turns in doctrine makes a mockery of their assertion that they have the "truth" and expect the flock to simply follow without comment.

On top of this, they refuse to address glaring holes in eschatology such as the 607 date, the generation teaching, glaring inconsistencies in the blood doctrine and child protection issues. Not only is dissent managed by demonising and excluding perpetrators but even honest hearted questioning and discussion is prevented through thinly veiled social manipulation.

The fact is that there is always a hidden agenda to any action the WTS undertakes. They don't wake up one day and go "oh we were morons about this" and change it, every action is carefully planned and thought out. They lay the groundwork for changes months, even years in advance. Even the GB approval process requires ALL to be in agreement.

If you think the change to the types/anti-types understanding is simply them thinking they went to far in the past then think again. They are making things less specific because firstly it means they can be held less accountable when things don't add up and also, I believe, to make future arguments that other scriptures are to be taken less literally more palatable. I think they have a long term plan to reduce the specific nature of certain prophesies such as the generation teaching and the only way of doing this is getting rid of loads of cases where the hubris of Freddy F and his minions got the better of them.

So, when you are faced with a torrent of "apostates" biting back at you over things like your OP then just bear in mind many on this board have seen the two faced and self-serving nature of the GB and WTS at first hand over and over again. The WTS is far less genuine and honest heartedly misguided than you would like to think.

26

Is it possible that you were raised in a false religion?

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

do you believe in islam?

there are 1.6 billion muslims.

do you accept the pope as gods representative on earth?

konceptual99

There really is no need to insert jpgs when there is a perfectly good text editor on the page.

Anyway, the point of the OP is not about the legal and secular framework related to a religious belief. It's all about the likelihood that 8 million people are following the only "TRUTH" when billions of others are considered by those same people to be wrong.

Add to this the fact the the "TRUTH" changes and what had to be accepted as 100% true last week now is wrong and replaced by the opposite view, which is now the 100% truth.

23

Why BOGUS PREDICTIONS and CHANGEABLE TEACHINGS only strengthen JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

by TerryWalstrom in

today's jw knows less about the history of the watchtower religion than ever before.. there is no need to know.

only the present moment of new light has meaning.. there are too many enemies surrounding jw's to risk learning something faith-weakening.. such as facts.

the watchtower religion (jehovah's witnesses) has been 'getting away with it' since 1874.. setting dates built on false chronology, pyramidology, slanted quotations about world events, and misrepresenting their own authority, (channel of jehovah) is a profitable enterprise for the watchtower org.. how do we know they 'get away with it'?.

konceptual99

Quality post once again. Thank you Terry.

55

JWs and their views on Sex

by campaign of hate in

in the past i have read on this forum that the wt have a say in the "bedroom" of couples.

i thought that was a bit overkill at first, but recently i have come to conclusion that this is true.. the control administered by the wt cooperation on ones sex life is not on only intrusive, its damaging.

they control every aspect of ones thought and action, thus leading most down a path that said corporation wants them to tread.. this path is to get married young, and then eternal loyalty the the organisation.. so how can an organisation force you to get married young?.

konceptual99

Hi Brock,

Just to apologise if I came across as generally dismissive regarding the impact of WT teachings on sex, that was not my intent.

I am well aware that during the late 60 and 70s particularly there was much more direct "counsel" published, as per your citations. I know from my childhood that the interference and intervention into the private lives of married couples was far more intrusive and clearly affected many.

It is also true to say that the WTS has not completely retracted or changed teachings on many things published in those days so they still stand. For example, as far as I know, despite some words around the elders not being bedroom police, they have not retracted their view that oral sex is not appropriate as it's a practice common to homosexuals.

I am in my 40s and had conversations with peers about oral sex in the 90s. The overriding opinion was that the WTS literature did essentially ban it but if you did it consensually then who was going to know or really care.

I am sure that the behaviour of young ones in the late 80s and 90s dating was not that far off what was going on in earlier decades with people getting into "heavy petting" etc. without too much conscience. I know ones that would sleep with their BF/GF.

As I qualified, my experience of married ones over the past 20 years is that no one discusses WTS policies when it comes to what goes on in the bedroom and does what they want pretty much. I am not dismissing the problems that still may occur in a marriage and I am sure there are some who are affected by feelings of guilt over what is completely normal behaviour. I am convinced however, that the vast majority of problems in marriages I have seen over the time myself and my peers have been married are predominately down to the wider circumstances around simply being hitched to the wrong person. If the sex is bad then this will be part of the cycle that contributes to the deterioration of the relationship.

I count myself fortunate to have been getting married at a time when the impact of the WTS policing the sexual conduct of couples was declining. I can see from your posts and others, such as Flipper, how much the WTS affected the day to day lives of couples just a few years earlier and how much their ridiculous assertions would affect the mental state of single persons and couples engaging in completely normal, natural behaviour.

7

Simplified Suggestion--The 144,000

by FusionTheism in

the governing body has recently placed a large priority on simplicity and clarity in their teachings and publications.

for example:the watchtower study edition, march 15, 2015, pages 8-10:.

in recent years, the spiritual instruction provided by jehovahs organization has reflected an increased emphasis on simplicity and clarity.

konceptual99

I'll be giving suggestions to the Governing Body for much simpler, accurate, interpretations based on the context

Do you have a plan on presenting this info to them and getting their feedback?