konceptual99

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Posts by konceptual99

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  51

  EXPERTS ONLY! A Pop Quiz on (current) Watchtower teaching

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  pop quiz on jw (current) teaching.

  1. was jesus 2nd coming in 1914?.

  2. is jesus 2nd (parousia) presence the same thing as his coming?.

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  konceptual99

  It's easy to show that the WTS doctrine is that Jesus only is mediator for the 140,000.  They are open about that and base it on the interpretation of the new covenant.  The question was if Jesus died for the GC.  The mediation of the New Covenant is not the sole consideration in the answer to this question.  The WTS literature does often differentiate between the GC and 144,000 when discussing salvation but is clear that salvation is offered to the GC through their exercising of faith in Jesus' sacrifice.  They also state he died for all.

  So, it can be argued that JW publications show Jesus strictly only really died for the 140,000 since he only mediates for them on the NC but I think the position on the NC does not preclude his death having the power to redeem the of all mankind.

  I will await Terry's POV on this when he provides his answers...

  [EDIT] - just to add that of course this apparent contradiction is very well described in the jwfacts.com article.  I think that even one of the GB would hold the line that JWs teach Jesus died for all even though he only mediates the NC for the 140,000 
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  51

  EXPERTS ONLY! A Pop Quiz on (current) Watchtower teaching

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  pop quiz on jw (current) teaching.

  1. was jesus 2nd coming in 1914?.

  2. is jesus 2nd (parousia) presence the same thing as his coming?.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  konceptual99

  I would suggest 3 & 7 are the most open to obfuscation within the literature.
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  51

  EXPERTS ONLY! A Pop Quiz on (current) Watchtower teaching

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  pop quiz on jw (current) teaching.

  1. was jesus 2nd coming in 1914?.

  2. is jesus 2nd (parousia) presence the same thing as his coming?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  konceptual99

  So are we failing on the same point or are there several questions you think we have wrong?
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  51

  EXPERTS ONLY! A Pop Quiz on (current) Watchtower teaching

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  pop quiz on jw (current) teaching.

  1. was jesus 2nd coming in 1914?.

  2. is jesus 2nd (parousia) presence the same thing as his coming?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  konceptual99

  Here we go....

  Of course, the answers to most, if not all, of these have changed considerably over the years thanks to the NewLight Torch of (UN)Ambiguity and I don't think there are many that could really answer these without reference to the latest guide books.

  1.       Was Jesus’ 2nd coming in 1914?

  No.  There is no such thing as a second coming.  Jesus' presence (parousia) started in 1914 when he was enthroned as king.

  2.        Is Jesus’ 2nd (parousia) presence the same thing as his ‘coming?’

  No.  His coming will be future at the big A.

  3.         Is the doctrine of the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ still regarded as a prophecy       instead of a parable?

  It's a parable within the prophecy of the last days.

  4.        Were the FDS appointed over ‘all His belongings’ in 1919?

  No. They were but now that's future.

  5.        Did the Gentile Times end in 1914, or is that yet to come at a future date?

  Yes

  6.       Is the ‘great tribulation’ in the past, the present, or yet to come in the future?

  Future, when Babylon the Great is attacked by the nations

  7.        Did Jesus die in order to save the ‘Great Crowd’?

  Yes,  His death enables the anointed to achieve a righteous standing to become joint heirs and the GC get to have a righteous standing by exercising faith in his shed blood as well.  The WTS consistently differentiate between the 144000 and GC however, for example noting he is "saviour of this body" (Eph 5:23) - the anointed congregation and secondly, those of the GC that exercise faith in him.

  8.        If the Bible was only written for the anointed, why should non-anointed bother to read it?

  Because all can benefit from Jesus death and the new world.

  9.        Was Charles Taze Russell a member of the anointed 144,000? If so, since what date?

  Yes.  Who knows when that blessing was conferred on him.  He is no longer considered part of the F&DS as they were only appointed in 1919 and he was already dead by then.

  
  

  Did I get it?  You did say current teachings....
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  56

  Can the world condition be worse than this?

  by abiather in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the innocent civilians being attacked is the norm of the day.

  attacking hospitals too are happening frequently.

  now schools being attacked is becoming a regular affair (last of its kind massacred 150 children in peshawar on december 16, 2014)..

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  konceptual99

  I am a bit late to the thread but it's made for interesting reading.

  As a mentally in JW it was easy to consider that the world is full of violence that is not being solved and is getting worse.  As my mind has opened and I've stopped employing cognitive dissonance to square the circle in my head then I have come to realise that I am fecking ecstatic I was not born 100, 500, 1000, 10000 years ago.

  My living standards are good.  I have access to good quality medical care.  I am comfortable most of the time.  I am not hungry.  My risk of a violent death is low.  I am not faced with severe poverty.  The vast majority of people around me are in a similar boat.

  Of course this is not the same globally.  I recognise that I am still very fortunate.  I know there are people suffering in my country let alone around the world.  I see the wars and violence around.  It's certainly not a case of "I'm all right Jack", just recognising that proportionally life was a hell of a lot harder and risky for a hell of a lot more people in times past.

  The world has a lot of problems.  Conflict and economic instability are constant.  I feel far more confident about the future now however than I did before I mentally threw out JW doctrine.   As much as right wing nutters, Islamic extremists and others try to drag us back, too many people have experienced too much relative comfort to let the whole world slide to some form of global chaos.

  Why is it that Northern Ireland has not reverted to full on sectarian violence even though there is still some conflict between the extremists on both sides there?  Because most people actually like to be able to live their lives in relative peace.  Because most people don't want soldiers on the street.  Because most people don't feel the need to go and blow someone else up because they want something different.  Once the extremist leaders lost their grip on political situation then the situation was diffused and, surprise surprise, most people realised that life was a bit better without nutters blowing each other up.

  The situation is repeated around the world.  Once extremist leaders no longer are able to spout their rhetoric of hate then most people appreciate the relative normality that ensues.  I think you will find the same with any Witness who wakes up.  Once the rhetoric of nonsense like that coming out of the mouth of Morris loses it's hold then so too does this notion that the world is going to shite and we are all about to be screwed unless God steps in and sweeps away 7 billion people. 
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  18

  Using the tv.jw.org as a wake up tool with my kids

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, i have been badgered recently to do some kind of family study by my wife.

  thanks to tv.jw.org i now have a really easy tool to use that not only passes this time but actually makes them question the organisation.. our sessions skipping through the delights of the monthly broadcast have been very interesting.

  derision at the wooden delivery of the gb.

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  konceptual99

  So, I have been badgered recently to do some kind of family study by my wife.  Thanks to tv.jw.org I now have a really easy tool to use that not only passes this time but actually makes them question the organisation.

  Our sessions skipping through the delights of the monthly broadcast have been very interesting.  For example:

  • derision at the wooden delivery of the GB
  • laughter at Stephen Lett and his crazy eyes
  • questioning around Morris and his anti-education rant
  • 3 minutes of rolling around, belly laughs at the trolley song
  • questioning of why anyone would want to listen to the tedious morning worship broadcasts, let alone sit through them in person
  • discussion about how prominent the GB have made themselves in the past 5 years
  • discussion about the appropriateness and point of wearing a Sophia and Caleb pin on the ministry as opposed to one featuring some Disney or Marvel character.  (see Mrs. Antony Morris at around 23:10 in this months joy fest) 

  The great thing about these broadcasts is that they show the GB as people with little to recommend respect.  In our house, reverence and unfettered respect for the hierarchy of the org has never been commonplace, even when I was mentally fully paid up, so it's quite natural to laugh at some of the ridiculous things presented.  

  It's tough treading a line on these sorts of things but tv.jw.org has been a great tool in helping my kids see that the GB and their ramblings are pretty ridiculous.  Food at the proper time indeed.

  
  
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  49

  Ode to the trolleys in Feb's broadcast

  by konceptual99 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  check out the song about the trolley at the end of this month's dubcast.. http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=mp4&output=html&pub=jwb&issue=201502.

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  konceptual99

  Check out the song about the trolley at the end of this month's dubcast.

  http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=MP4&output=html&pub=jwb&issue=201502

  
  
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  90

  Some screenshots from new KH meeting!

  by pixel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  they just put up a link to watch a replay of the "new kh meeting", here some screenshots.. .

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  konceptual99

  Meanwhile in Kazakhstan the conventions are held in a greenhouse.

  http://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/kazakhstan/new-kazakh-bible-translation/

  Seems like Lösch drew the short straw for that trip of lifetime.

  
  
• 
  90

  Some screenshots from new KH meeting!

  by pixel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  they just put up a link to watch a replay of the "new kh meeting", here some screenshots.. .

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  konceptual99

  I would like to see if this design comes through to the UK or into cities where space is at a premium.
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  44

  Is the Watchtower "Be Happy@Bethel" music video a United Nations promotion?

  by OUTLAW in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  pharrell partners with un for 'international day of happiness'.

  still riding the success of his global hit "happy," is partnering with the united nations foundation to celebrate international day of happiness on march 20th.

  established in 2012 by the united nations general assembly, the day acknowledges that "the pursuit of happiness is a fundamental human goal" and recognizes "the need for a more inclusive, equitable and balanced approach to economic growth that promotes sustainable development, poverty eradication, happiness and the well-being of all peoples," according to the resolution.. pharrell williams gets 'happy' on 'despicable me 2' soundtrack - song premiere.

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  konceptual99

  
  

  To the conservative mindset, silence is usually equated with consent. And the WT hierarchy's silence on "Happy" speaks volumes.

  K99, you are right, not everything has an agenda. Still, PR is what it is. The "Happy@Bethel" song is a convenient piece of "unofficial" PR.

  Yet they are trying to keep the lid on it, get it pulled off YT.  I don't quite understand how it would have got to the point of being put up without Bethel hierarchy's silence (and I agree implication of tacit approval) but then why and get it dropped as quickly as it appeared?