Posts by konceptual99

143

Letter to BOE: Adjustment in process for appointing elders and ministerial servants

by pixel in

hello, you read it here first!.

governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

to all congregations.

konceptual99

Ok skeeter, I've read the article and do agree that the WTS will be looking to minimise exposure here. What, however, would be the implications of this type of prosecution? There must be 1000s of churches and charitable organisations in US alone that, were the DA's office to be successful, would then be at risk of criminal prosecution. Some will be tiny but what about the Catholic Church? Is a DA's office somewhere in the US going to subpoena the Pope?

I don't mean to pour scorn on your proposal as I think the WTS have been in the game long enough to know that it's always worth trying to pre-empt a situation. I would not be surprised if more heat does come on the leadership of organisations when it is clear that the organisational processes offered scant protection and potentially allowed abuse to continue. I also do see that the charge of knowingly covering up the abuse does present a direct risk to the GB. I can also see that by delegating the responsibility for appointing elders there is a potential abstraction of culpability.

My gut feel remains that the reality of a DA trying to bring such a prosecution would present such legal ramifications and have such limited chance of success that the legal resources available to the WTS are a far more effective risk management weapon than making the COs carry the can. I suspect that if there were to be a groundswell of action along these lines then public prosecutors would go for some lower hanging fruit than the WTS.

It would be very, very, very sweet if I was completely wrong however!

143

Letter to BOE: Adjustment in process for appointing elders and ministerial servants

by pixel in

hello, you read it here first!.

governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

to all congregations.

konceptual99

Will do!

143

Letter to BOE: Adjustment in process for appointing elders and ministerial servants

by pixel in

hello, you read it here first!.

governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

to all congregations.

konceptual99

I hear what you are saying skeeter. I have to add that have no formal law training plus I apprecitate things are different in the US to here in the UK. I could be way off base.

Having said that I think most would agree that it is difficult to bring sustainable legal charges against a corporation and it's officers, especially when a religious charity. True, if it were to happen the opportunity for legal game playing is far less than a tort case but I am still not convinced that concern over legal culpability is at the heart of this move to shift responsibility for appointments.

I see an organisation trying to save money, lose people, reduce the care exposure as long standing volunteers get older, find ways of securing revenue streams and keep the R&F beleiving the chariot is about to hit warp speed. I am not saying implications of civil or criminal litigation are being ignored, I just don't think all roads lead to the GB covering their flabby arses.

143

Letter to BOE: Adjustment in process for appointing elders and ministerial servants

by pixel in

hello, you read it here first!.

governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

to all congregations.

konceptual99

I am sure there are legal experts employed by Brooklyn who looking at how to minimise the WTS's exposure to litigation. I just don't think every organisation change has some ulterior motive designed to keep the GB away from court. You only have to look at the Candice Conti case to see how sucessful the WTS is at stringing the legal process out. I think the effort and money it takes to bring even a pretty rock solid case to court is a far larger barrier. I do accept that criminal culpabilty perhaps is different but even then prosecuting a perpetrator is far more easy for the legal system to follow than trying to bring criminal charges against those percieved as officers of an organisation.

I know we all like to think that the GB is an evil, machiavellian entity, morphed into the ultimate end of level boss but I am sure most of this comes down to saving money and being able to reduce resource requirements. I think the casual treatment of those who have dedicated decades of free labour is far more of a shocking reality than believing the GB are trying to distance themselves even further from the evil clutches of the public prosecutor.

11

WHAT IS GOING ON IN RUSSIA??

by DATA-DOG in

i hear a lot of stories circulating about jws in russia.

the government is raiding houses for literature, just like the old days.

an eldub was rambling during the wt study about jws in russia.

konceptual99

Not heard anything but I know for a fact that jw.org WOL library does not work in Russia. JW.org does but not the library.

31

The REAL reason for the elder and ms appointment change......

by EndofMysteries in

as seen in recent posts, beginning later this year appointments and deletions of elders and ms will only happen through the circuit overseer.

this means that individual congregations and elders have no say anymore.

if the gb want only certain people in or out, they tell the co and he makes it happen.

konceptual99

That article just about sums it up Oubliette. plausible liability.

If you meant plausible deniability then I am not so sure. I can see the reasoning behind such a conclusion however the CO will have to perform the checks that the branch were originally doing. To do so he will have to access information held at the branch. The branch maintains the records on each appointed man. I don't see that this pushes the corporate liability completely away.

I think this change is not much more than them streamlining the process and reducing man power requirement. The far more interesting things to me is (a) if this will make it easier for the CO to impose his will beyond what is currently possible and (b) if the Nov WT will promote a scriptural reason for this that actually makes it easier to ask questions as to why they have done the wrong thing for so long.

112

All appointed men are being told they have to pioneer now!

by stuckinarut2 in

yes, you read correctly..... all appointed men have been told in a new letter that they have to pioneer to "set the lead" whenever there is a "special" campaign month.

they use some scripture saying that these ones have to show by example.... so for any of us who are appointed and have learned ttatt, it is going to be very hard to fade during this time!.

.

konceptual99

That letter is simply encouraging all to pioneer and reminding the appointed men that sheep like to follow rather than be pushed. There is no obligation to pioneer. As I said earlier however, now there are at least 4 opportunities to aux pioneer on 30 hours a year I can understand the peer pressure ramping if an appointed man is percieved to be making no effort to set the lead in pioneering on any occasion during the year.

If your CO or COBE is saying you have to do it then that sounds like a over zealous local bellend. In fact, just a bellend. There is no obligation.

38

I heard an interesting piece of information from a super-elder today

by Barrold Bonds in

today i attended the special assembly day (sad lol).

i overheard a conversation between an elder and another elder.

we'll call this guy a super elder because he's on all sorts of committees in the area.

konceptual99

LOL! I just checked out that site, the first address that came up was already booked for the assembly dates, just goes to show JWs will do what is best for them anyway if the Org becomes too controlling

I wouldn't read too much into that Kate. The ParkAtMyHouse sites went within a few days of the orignal announcement of the assembly at Twickers months ago. The video regarding transport and what the F&DS would like us all to do was only presented last week.

Erm... England is not one of the world's two biggest powers anymore. Hate to bust jw bubble! It just shows how clueless about the world they are. A big convention in China - now that would be something to gloat about.

Sorry Julia but us limeys are still 50% of the the most important world power. It says so in my Revelation book.

38

I heard an interesting piece of information from a super-elder today

by Barrold Bonds in

today i attended the special assembly day (sad lol).

i overheard a conversation between an elder and another elder.

we'll call this guy a super elder because he's on all sorts of committees in the area.

konceptual99

The planned attendance at Twickenham is not even that special - 50,000. It's capacity is 82,000. Of course I would imagine that one end of the stadium will be unused where it is behind the platform but even so it not's a massive number. Three days of sustained activity at the stadium is relatively unusual but all it means is lots of hassle for the locals. On a Bank Holiday weekend as well.

I am sure they will be soooo glad that their lives are being thrown in the air for three days just so a GB member can make some hubris filled statement that "a great shout of praise is being sent that Jehovah's peope are having their international convention in the back yard of Satan's organisaion in this glorious 100 year Kingdom anniversary season".

On that point, we had a video shown at our Thursday meeting last week imploring everyone to use public transport and, ideally, stay in hotels. They are laying on fleets of buses to take people to specific hotels and don't want people driving. They have assigned someone to go round and ask people how they are getting there. They are even saying they don't want people to use the Park At My House site to book driveways to park on. If you are driving home each night then you are basically going against theocratic counsel. Which is exactly what I will be doing...

112

All appointed men are being told they have to pioneer now!

by stuckinarut2 in

yes, you read correctly..... all appointed men have been told in a new letter that they have to pioneer to "set the lead" whenever there is a "special" campaign month.

they use some scripture saying that these ones have to show by example.... so for any of us who are appointed and have learned ttatt, it is going to be very hard to fade during this time!.

.

konceptual99

The 30 hour option came in a few years ago when there were the special leaftlet campaigns. This has now been extended to when the CO comes as well. They have always encouraged appointed men to pioneer during this time but it's never been mandatory. Having said that with the option for this to happen as much as four times a year then the social pressure to push the boat out at least once a year is ramping up.

The OP's claim does have to be verified and assuming it is then it will be interesting to see the supporting bumpf as to how obligatory this really is.