Posts by Sanchy

95

Supreme Court Of Russia bans Jehovah's Witnesses as an 'extremist organization'

by EdenOne in

read the news here.

the jehovah's witnesses lost their appeal to the supreme court of russia.

bethel to be liquidated.. i bet the gb saw this coming ... here comes the persecution complex paranoia.

Sanchy

I cannot understand for the life of me how some of you here have been able to let build so much anger and resentment in your hearts so as to possibly consider the probable upcoming pain/troubles/persecutions of those you once considered "brothers" to be a good thing. My friends, I know the JW religion has been the source of much personal pain for most of us, but please remember that two wrongs do NOT make a right. A few points I'd like to make:

1) Since when do government bans stop the JW message from spreading? History shows that it only has a contrary effect. Gov bans do NOT stop JWs, freedom of information does.

2) These are real individuals involved that will suffer real pains and persecutions for the reason of following their religious conscience. No matter how "pathetic" you think the religious doctrines are, it's every individuals right to follow their own individual conscience. No government law can ever change this fact without becoming a tyranny, and it's attempts to do so will only replace one oppressive system with another.

52

Is shunning unscriptual?

by MrTheocratic in

international version 1 cor 5:11. but now i am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler.

do not even eat with such people.. if shunning is wrong.

.how does one explain this scripture?.

Sanchy

I don't think this "Paul contradicts Jesus" theme works with ppl who still believe in scripture as the word of God. Afterall, Jesus handpicked Paul as an apostle and clearly blessed him with holy spirit to do many great works.

Me personally, I do believe shunning to a certain degree IS indeed scriptural. However, it seems to me that nowhere in the bible is authority given to form a judicial system, a system with theocratic courts and judges and punishments/sentences. This would go beyond the statement given by Paul, and indeed beyond the attitude Jesus told his followers to have. (an attitude opposite to the pharisees)

Rather, the suggestion here is on an individual basis, directed toward all in the congregation. An idea closely related to the concept that "bad company corrupts good character", Paul is simply encouraging all Christians to avoid relating closely to any who 'claiming to be a brother practices all these things'. This would be up to the conscience of each christian to follow. Nowhere does it speak of a "state" of disfellowshipping which someone falls into after being declared "guilty of not repenting" in which they can't be spoken to for the rest of their lives until they follow some reinstatement procedure.This theocratic judicial system goes beyond scripture and intent, and ultimately I think does more harm than good to the Christian Conscience.

This same context also applies to 2 John 10 of "not even greeting someone who does not bring this teaching". Again, this is a personal recommendation directed towards individuals, a recommendation again closely related to the "bad company corrupts.." concept. Besides that, who is John referring to in this text when he mentions to not even greet? The context shows that he is referring to someone who refuses to believe in Christ, the "anti-christ". Can a JW say they are following this scripture if they shun someone that although in disagreement with JW doctrine, still believes in Christ?

For more discussion in the subject, there is always jwfacts.com.

147

Challenge to Creationists

by cofty in

in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

Sanchy

All the evidence needed. I rest my case :)

P.S. to my wife, if you see this message, I love you!

147

Challenge to Creationists

by cofty in

in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

Sanchy

Yes that is correct and in no way conflicts with the laws of thermodynamics.

Well, I don't completely agree with this... and one day I'll be able to explain why I dont :)

147

Challenge to Creationists

by cofty in

in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

Sanchy

The evidence is overwhelming

Its true Cofty that the evidence to certain evolutionary processes leading to variety in species as exist today is "overwhelming". However, the evidence as to what sparked or started this process is lacking and indeed open to many theories and interpretations .

Remember too that the burden of proof is on creationists

Although I agree that the burden to prove a creator falls upon creationists (an admitted seemingly impossible feat as I mentioned previously) it can also be said the burden to prove life can come from inanity also falls upon non-believers. Many ideas and theories and experiments have thus far been concocted, however the concept remains not fully proven.

Entropy will decrease in a closed system.

Exactly... it will slow down per se in closed systems; however, it seems to my humble mind that it has not slowed, but rather done a 180 and gone backwards within our supposed closed system to the point of reversing itself and creating order beyond any order existent in our known universe. The good ol' "a watch will not create itself" analogy comes to play.

Having said this, I will read the link you sent me, it looks interesting. Thanks for that.

147

Challenge to Creationists

by cofty in

in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

Sanchy

I'm agnostic and do not pretend to have the ability nor the knowledge to prove for the existence of a creator. Having said that, here are my two cents:

-Can one currently actually present certain proof as to whether a creator exists (or existed) or not? If not, it would be wise for all here to avoid a dogmatic attitude (like the humble and discreet GB cough, cough)

-One of the fundamental reasons (knowingly or unknowingly) for many having faith (and it must be faith due to reasons outlined in my first point) in a creator sparking and guiding the biological processes is based IMO on the second law of thermodynamics, aka "entropy". In a universe with ever increasing entropy, what caused a reverse to occur in allowing for an ever increasing order in the biological chain, leading to the existence of ever more ordered and complex organisms? A fundamental law that we all have engraved in our human conscience of "disorder not leading to order" is inherently broken if one accepts that no "order" existed before current "order" as exists now. (of course there's the whole close and open system explanation, but that one does not completely convince me for various reasons)

-Does this disprove evolution? Not really. In fact, its quite clear that evolution has led to the seemingly infinite variety of species we see today. Even JWs believe in a form of evolution as stated in an earlier post. However, how do we reconcile the theory with the possibility of a creator? and..does the account of Genesis contradict the evolutionary theory in its entirety?

147

Challenge to Creationists

by cofty in

in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

Sanchy

JWs unknowingly believe in a form of Evolution:

From the Reasoning Book:

Did God create all the millions of varieties of organisms that exist on earth today?
Genesis chapter 1 says simply that God created each “according to its kind.” (Gen. 1:12, 21, 24, 25) In preparation for the global Flood in Noah’s day, God directed that representative members of each “kind” of land animal and flying creature be taken into the ark. (Gen. 7:2, 3, 14) Each “kind” has the genetic potential for great variety. Thus there are reportedly more than 400 different breeds of dogs and upwards of 250 breeds and types of horses. All interfertile varieties of any animal are just one Genesis “kind.” Similarly, all varieties of humans—Oriental, African, Caucasian, those as tall as the seven-foot Dinka in the Sudan and as short as the four-foot-four-inch Pygmies—stem from the one original pair, Adam and Eve.—Gen. 1:27, 28; 3:20.

147

Challenge to Creationists

by cofty in

in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

Sanchy

Are evolution and creation mutually exclusive?

10

A question for NEWBIES , especially if you would have died for your beliefs , and / or if you have been a long time in the religion .

by smiddy in

i`m just curious as to how you came across this site or any other "apostate" site for that matter especially now when the internet on the one hand is so demonized when it comes to the subject of jehovah`s witnesses , except of course for jw.org ,.

was it by accident ?

somebody has mentioned it to you ?

Sanchy

One day I was doing personal study on our 1914 doctrine which started a chain of events that successively led me here, as follows:

Personal Study on 1914 -> Decided to seek secular info on 607 -> Found historians disagree with that date -> Found "Gentile Times Reconsidered" -> Heard about an ex-governing body member called Ray Franz -> Looked up more about him -> Found Crisis of Concience -> My concience at this point allowed me to read it -> Realized this was prob not "the truth" -> Visited apostate websites.

10

A violation of the separation of Church and State?

by Londo111 in

so i went to dmv this morning.... can someone explain how this does not violate the separation of church and state?.

.

Sanchy

The infamous "seperation of church and state" ghost-law has surfaced again. Anyways, chances are that if those friends did not get some sort of permission to park there they will prob be asked to leave sooner or later.