A few years ago at a conference a video was shown set in 1975 where a fanatic couple had sold everything to go preach, while another couple was skeptical when they saw these decisions. In the video the wise couple was the skeptical couple. What the video didn't say was that it was the organization that was responsible for fanaticism and that at the time the fanatics were the examples to follow. So the lesson of the video was...: don't pay too much attention to what the organization says! Don't worry, I've been doing it for decades.
Jalisco
JoinedPosts by Jalisco
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1975 !
by Sea Breeze inhow many of you here remember 1975?
i hope the newer generations never forget.the true believers got shamed for it.
those who were hedging their bets, fared much better.
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Our (JW) genetic mutation
by Jalisco inthe spiritual dna of our faith was "protestant" for over 100 years, until 1985, after which it changed to a catholic sense.
for example, for decades we were presented with the example of the bereans who "were more noble-minded than those of thessalonica" because they went to see in the scriptures if what paul preached to them was really like that.
and then a second to the bereans?
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Jalisco
The spiritual DNA of our faith was "Protestant" for over 100 years, until 1985, after which it changed to a Catholic sense. What do I mean? For example, for decades we were presented with the example of the Bereans who "were more noble-minded than those of Thessalonica" because they went to see in the scriptures if what Paul preached to them was really like that. This personal verification of the scriptures is typical of the "Protestant" approach. But even more impressive is the second question that was asked of those being baptized until 1985. That is: "On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself without reserve to God to do his will from now on as *he will reveal it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the Holy Spirit*?" [W 1/10/73 pg.600 pr.25]
That is, it speaks of the Will of God that "*YOU* will reveal through Jesus Christ..the Bible ...under the Holy Spirit"...it seems like another religion. And in fact it was.
Since 1985, however, the Thessalonians have been increasingly placed before us and less so the Bereans, the Thessalonians in fact "accepted the Word (preached by Paul) as the Word of God" [1 Thes.2:13] without going to look at the scriptures like the Bereans. And unlike the Protestant cut of the second question before immersion, since 1985 this one has been placed:
"Do you understand that your dedication and your baptism identify you as a Jehovah's Witness *associated with the organization directed by the spirit of God*?" [W 1/10/1985 pg.20].
With this change of direction, the individual believer is subjected to the organization that is mentioned here for the first time. The slight syntactic adjustments that followed have not modified the structure of the new "Catholic" DNA. I say Catholic because, unlike the Protestant faith, the Catholic recognizes a centralized spiritual guide identified with the government of the Church located in Rome with the Pope at its head. The teaching of the doctrine occurs through the magisterium of the Church and the believer entrusts himself to it, recognizing it as a divine guide and disavowing his own competence in understanding the Scriptures.
Why this shift towards Catholicism in an ecclesiological sense? The most reasonable answer is to maintain greater unity, which perhaps is better called uniformity. It is known that Protestantism has produced a great ecclesial fragmentation into many different streams and denominations based on the differences in doctrine that the various groups formulated autonomously. Catholicism, on the other hand, remains a single entity under the government of Rome and the Pope, at least formally. Here, since unity (or rather uniformity!) has been chosen, the hope is that we continue with the imitation of Catholicism also in the acceptance of the numerous religious movements and orders that express different ways of living the faith. In fact, we see notable differences in the "way" of expressing the faith, for example, between the Franciscan friars and the Dominicans, between the Jesuits and the socialist priests like Don Gallo, between the order of Opus Dei and the Neocatechumenal Servants of Jahve... and I have only given a few examples. They are all "under" the guidance of Rome but are free to live their way of understanding the Christian vocation. Rome accepts them and praises them even recognizing that it does not have the exclusive right to the work of the Holy Spirit. As long as they accept a fundamental belief and, at least formally, submission to the Catholic magisterium. Here, if our dear CD did the same among us instead of suppressing the legitimate and blessed variants of Christianity that we also show, we would last as long as the Church after the Protestant Reformation. So we should start from a corpus of doctrines beyond discussion, formulated with carefully chosen words that do not exceed the fingers of both hands. The rest of the teachings will have a lower importance and therefore susceptible to free discussion.
Returning to the Bereans and Thessalonians... I don't know if it's just a coincidence but how come we don't have a first letter of Paul to the Bereans? And then a Second to the Bereans? While we have 2 to the Thessalonians? Answer: because the Bereans, those who studied the scriptures, coincidentally did not have the spiritual problems that the Thessalonians showed, those who accepted Paul's preaching sight unseen, on trust, without the effort of personally verifying what God's will was with their own mental faculties, the _loghikén latréian_ of Romans 12:1,2. And it is not because there were more disciples in Thessalonica than in Berea, the opposite is true. According to Acts 17 in Thessalonica "some" became believers (v.4) while in Berea "many" (v.12) and precisely because they showed that nobility of mind that pushed them to delve deeply into the Word and convince themselves rationally. Whatever the WT says, the Bereans are better than the Thessalonians. Better to risk a different thought than herds of simpletons who remain spiritual infants always in need of being told what they should do.
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What the new JW light position really is 👍
by ElderBerry ini’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.
as my fellow elders are.
we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.
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Jalisco
In our time, our religious DNA was Protestant; now it's completely Catholic, and no one realized that. So, since it is like that, it should also be like that in the aspect of Catholicism that I like most: the tolerance of internal groups with characteristics of other religions, but they remain within. The Church accepts and recognizes them so as not to lose them and formalize other schisms, as long as they recognize the "creed," which is composed of very few fundamental teachings, perhaps written with some synonyms from the most widely used version. I hope it will come to that, too, given that they decided to be Catholic. Regarding the "lowest common denominator" creed we could have, consider the famous "Apostles' Creed," the oldest on record.
*Apostles' Creed*
"I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth.
" and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended into Hades; on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the universal holy congregation, the Communion of Saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
The life everlasting. Amen."*
Even Jw can recite it.
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Oral and Anal Sex flip flop? March 2025 Announcements and Reminders
by ukpimo injust in.
a jaw dropping announcements and reminders for elders this month.
how can you serve as an elder and believe this organization is spirit directed after reading this letter?.
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Jalisco
I know a case personally. A married couple of brothers were giving bible studying to another married couple with 2 small children, a very "free" couple. Then the issue of "unnatural" intercourse arose and the brothers provided the understanding of that time (20 years ago) ... so the student woman has scruples of conscience and no longer wants to give her husband what is "unnatural"... in the end the husband leaves her with 2 children. Then the married couple of brothers try to help her to carry on, she is baptized, the brother (elder) even had sex with her... he gave her too much help!. Both were expelled and the married couple of brothers divorced. All this because.....?
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PIMA is best so it’s not a shock to the system if the tower collapsed
by JohnR1975 ini know most people here are totally out and that’s fine.. many these days are staying physically in for the social life and that is also fine.. i feel being fully mentally in is dangerous as it could be such a shock mentally if or should i say when the tower collapsed.. im sitting in the fence like so many others here.
mentally agnostic if god exists or not and if the bible is his word.. when i talk to people who are physically and mentally still in i can tell that they so need it to be true.
i’m worried for them when they wake up to the fact that they have been lied to 1914 wasn’t true 1975 wasn’t true 1999 wasn’t true and now here we are 2025 it’s all not true.
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Jalisco
let's forget about 1914, 1975, the 144,000 and all the strange doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses. Even if one no longer believes in these, it does not mean that we no longer have the problem of salvation, of the existence of God, of Jesus Christ dead and resurrected and all that it implies. You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's start again from the oldest Christian creed. The apostolic symbol..
*Apostolic symbol*
"I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into Hades; on the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God, the Father almighty:
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy universal Congregation, the Communion of Saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection in flesh
the life everlasting. Amen.»*
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*"The holy universal Congregation (ecclesia), the communion of believers."*
The Congregation (Ecclesia in Greek) is the people that God raises up for himself in the New Testament
"He came to his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in his name." John 1:11,12.
In the Old Testament, God formed his people through birth in the people of Israel, unique, special and center of God's promises. This condition could be lost because of the various transgressions of the law given by God to the people through Moses.
Today he invites all those who voluntarily wish to join him to be part of this people. There is only one condition: to welcome Jesus as a personal Savior. Whoever proceeds in this way becomes part of the people of God: the Church, and will never cease to belong to it. We note the superiority of our situation compared to the people of God of the Old Testament.
By affirming that it is universal, we recognize that it was instituted by Jesus, that it is and will be one in all centuries (it reaches the whole history of humanity), for the reunion and perfection of the saints.
The Congregation, by the will of God, is divided into various organizations called confessions, churches or missions.
These, if they have a creed in conformity with the historic Christian faith, which is the biblical faith, which requires that admission to its communion be the same as that which Christ requires for salvation, and if they proceed in conformity with that creed and subordinate their authority to that of the Word of God, which is the Bible, are true congregations of Christ, notwithstanding the differences in the form of government or in matters not essential to the faith, which have motivated their existence in different organizations.
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The Pella Deception: Watchtower May 2025
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/4otnshkqdbi?si=5ilzez_lxqscp1ww.
so, in the latest may 2025 study watchtower, the writers of this magazine, they have another go at revising church history for their own ends.
they take a well-documented historical event—the flight of christians from jerusalem before its destruction in 70 ad - and twisting it into a convenient narrative to reinforce blind obedience to organizational leadership.
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Jalisco
I read this article with interest because unlike in the past it said what Eusebius said about the cause of the escape. In the past it was always said that it was "the understanding of the prophecy of Jesus" mentioned by Luke and they understood that they had to flee after the sudden retreat of Cestius Gallus between 66 and 70. Bullshit! This explanation was intended to make us lean on the intentions of the governing body. Instead Eusebius said that it was a special vision, an oracle of the Lord that told him when to escape and perhaps even where and he did this before the war, therefore before 66. Note well that Eusebius does not say that the revelation was made to the leaders, he does not say elders or overseers but "approved men", a more spiritual and meritorious definition unrelated to hierarchical positions. Therefore even if we wanted to make a parallel for the future great tribulation it is saying that it is not an "understanding" of the governing body but a supernatural vision that will tell what to do to "men approved" by the Lord. It seems much better than before. I have been telling people for years what Eusebius really said. That said, I absolutely do not believe in the second fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy about the flight from Jerusalem!
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The "faithful servant" died in 1916.............
by BoogerMan in.........according to the 1922 "faithful slave.
the watchtower may 1, 1922 - faithfulness is loyalty.
"to be faithful means to be loyal.
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Jalisco
I take this opportunity to ask: what have been the interpretations since 1919 about who was the "slave"?
1)Russell since ...to...
2)all the anointed since...to 2013
3) the governing body....since 2013 to...
others?
Thanks
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Why the WATCHTOWER doesn't believe in the GREAT APOSTASY but you should!
by raymond frantz inhttps://youtu.be/i4uttjj7eus?si=0b-fzpqm8axb_d3p.
in its latest april 2025 watchtower study article 17 and paragraph 12 the watchtower promotes 2 dangerous lies that will cost your life if you are a believing christian during the time of the end, so i'm considering today the first lie in the first part of the paragraph, but first let's read the paragraph itself: "today, jehovah promises to provide us with spiritual protection.
he will never allow satan to corrupt true worship.
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Jalisco
Has the preterist interpretation of end-time prophecies ever been thoroughly discussed in this forum?
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"instructions that aren't sound by a human standpoint"
by mikeflood inwhat could be "an instruction not sound by a human standpoint"?.
i'm going by dissolving their legal entities...any guesses?.
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Jalisco
The only real use of this bizarre teaching is to make people accept things today that require explanation or that may produce protests. Fantasy scenarios of a great tribulation with no biblical basis are hypothesized to make people swallow unpleasant decisions and teachings of today.
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Unchangeable wisdom from the "slave" of yesteryear! 😀
by BoogerMan inbrethern, and cistern, today's lesson from the golden calf is one of profound importance - never to be forgotten!.
w56 6/15 p. 360 - "we usually believe what we want to believe, and one thing we like to believe is that we do our own thinking.
they plant the thought and nourish it, but do it so subtly that we think it is our own.
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Jalisco
what is the title of the article? i would like to find it in other languages