Posts by Bobcat

55

Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

by BluesBrother in

it is a challenge next sunday for them .

due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

Bobcat

@ TheOldHippee,

Regarding your question on page 5 of this thread, see my two comments here (just a little down from there).

The gist is that "and" (rather than "but") makes the verse a little more ambiguous. It is also out of character for the NWT (in most cases). Dan 11:20 ("but in a few days ...") and Dan 11:29 ("but not in anger ...") both use the same conjunction as in Dan 11:25 (wə·lō, see here) and the NWT dutifully renders it as "but." But not in Dan 11:25. And the original NWT came out when they were teaching an understanding that corresponds with "but." And it was only 37 years later (and after F Franz had passed) before they changed their understanding of the verse.

But see the comments I linked to just above regarding the 'mystery' of it (if you will). It is all rather curious.

55

Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

by BluesBrother in

it is a challenge next sunday for them .

due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

Bobcat

Thanks Jeffro, for setting me straight on that. I chose that top graphic because it had a similar design to the WT one and would make for a relatively easy comparison. Thanks for the link too.

55

Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

by BluesBrother in

it is a challenge next sunday for them .

due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

Bobcat

Here are two graphics showing the difference between the standard understanding of Daniel chapter 11 and the WT's understanding:

The historical fulfillment usually seen in commentaries:

The WT understanding as seen in the Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy book:

In the latest update, WT deletes Emperor Aurelius (King of North) & Queen Zenobia (King of South) on the line for Dan 11:25-26 and then moves everyone below that one line up. (If I don't have that correctly, please set me straight.)

Notice, for example, how in the WT explanation Seleucus IV and Antiochus IV are removed from Dan 11:20 & Dan 11:21-35 and lumped in the line Dan 11:13-19. The next two lines are explained as Roman emperors and then the explanation moves to modern times.

15

Sunday WT Study- King of North and South

by truthlover123 in

paragraph 8 dealing with who is the anglo-american power -- they note different images- feet of clay, 7 headed beast which has a 8th head arise, and so on.

the last image is of the "false prophet- indicating this is another aspect of the anglo american image quoting revelation 19:20 and saying the wild beast and the false prophet are one in the same -(i see the as separate entities) -- a/a dual world power.

which will be destroyed... .

Bobcat

The w53 p. 583 and the w55 p. 638 both identify the "false prophet" with the "two-horned lamb" of Rev 13. Rev 19:20 is the verse that ties the two-horned lamb to the false prophet. So this viewpoint goes back almost 70 years for the WT.

I got those two references off of the online WT library, by the way.

Babylon the Great is also referred to as "the great harlot" (Rev 17:1) and as "the great city" (Rev 17:18; 18:10, 16, 18, 19, 21)

There is also another "great city" that resembles Jerusalem (Rev 11:8; 16:19)

55

Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

by BluesBrother in

it is a challenge next sunday for them .

due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

Bobcat

Most commentaries see Dan 11:2-20 as a step by step description of rulers starting from Persia down to Seleucus IV Philopator (c. 187-176 BCE). Then, Dan 11:21-35 goes into extensive detail about Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175-164 BCE). Then Dan 11:36-45 is usually seen as some future mystery king (often explained as "the Antichrist").

If I remember correctly, the WT explains Dan 11:2-19 the same way commentaries do, with the exception that Seleucus IV and Antiochus IV are lumped into Dan 11:13-19. But from Dan 11:20-45 WT commentary begins to leap frog thru history, thru the 1st century and on down to modern times.

55

Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

by BluesBrother in

it is a challenge next sunday for them .

due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

Bobcat

JTG good work!

55

Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

by BluesBrother in

it is a challenge next sunday for them .

due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

Bobcat

Thank you JTG,

I tried to also trace the use of Dan 11:25 by the Society and I added what I found to Note # 1 at the bottom of the linked post. As you might imagine, they don't comment on that verse too often. They had it in the Your Will Be Done book (1958) and next time was in the Daniel's Prophecy book (1995). What changed between those dates was the use of the NWT. The 1958 book used Leeser's translation for Hebrew citations. The book came out just before the release of the last part of the NWT (shortly before 1960, which included Daniel). The 1995 book uses the NWT exclusively and they make the same application of the verse to Aurelian (KoN) and Zenobia (KoS), but they change the interpretation in line with the change from "but" (Leeser) to "and" (NWT) in Dan 11:25. Quite curious!

The NWT uses "and" in Dan 11:25 since it first came out. But I saw no footnote explaining the reason. I don't think I have seen any other translation that uses "and." They all say "but" or something equivalent.

55

Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

by BluesBrother in

it is a challenge next sunday for them .

due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

Bobcat

Even if one accepts the idea of a modern day fulfillment, there is a subtle but fatal flaw in the WT's reasoning with regard to Dan 11:25-26 and its application to Kaiser's Germany and WWI. I have it detailed here (off-site).

38

2 Letters Arrived--COVID-19--Instructions--and Consent Form--(as of 2020-07-09)

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

2020-07-04--and 2020-07 consent and contact form.

direction related to covid-19 pandemic for bodies of eldersgeneral precautionssecular authoritiesmeetingsfield ministryshepherdingtheocratic facilities and congregation recordscongregation expensesjudicial and other serious mattersconventions and assembliesschedule for viewing 2020 convention sessionstheocratic schools-----------------------------------letter 2 is a form to be filled out for:consent and contact details for attendees at the kingdom hallin order to support the nhs test and trace programme, we are taking contact details (name and telephone number) of all visitors, as well as recording the times people have entered and left the kingdom hall.if you are on the email list these letters are already sitting by your tv.

if you are not on the email list, reply below that you want a link put in your pm box.petra!https://docdro.id/dwwuizv

Bobcat

Hi Atlantis and Petra,

Could you send me a copy too please. (And thank you!)

33

2020-06-26--Announcement and Outlines for July and August!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

announcement:.

the following outlines should be presented in the christian life and ministry meeting during the dates specified below.

please assign a qualified elder to apply the material locally.

Bobcat

Bobcat says please also. And many thanks for your tireless efforts.