leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  8

  Who the Great Crowd Are Baptized To

  by lambsbottom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  great crowd jws are not baptized like the annointed are.

  the great crowd's baptism does not wash them of their sins, making them sinless, until way after armageddon (1,000 year rule).

  but the annointed are washed of their sins being 'sinless', as the recent wt study stated.

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  leaving_quietly

  BTW, all sarcasm aside, my response is the typical one JWs will give you. You have, of course, poked yet another hole in WT theology.
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  8

  Who the Great Crowd Are Baptized To

  by lambsbottom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  great crowd jws are not baptized like the annointed are.

  the great crowd's baptism does not wash them of their sins, making them sinless, until way after armageddon (1,000 year rule).

  but the annointed are washed of their sins being 'sinless', as the recent wt study stated.

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  leaving_quietly

  Where does wt say this John baptism is only for the gc?

  They don't say this. But they DO say that baptism into Christ's baptism is only for the anointed. Thus, the inference is that the GC are NOT baptized into Christ. The only other option is John's baptism.

  Ok, so if the GC is not baptized into Christ, then they do not have the Spirit of God in them and have no life in them and will NOT be given life.

  Is this what the WT is trying to say?

  Well, no... see... erm... let me explain this to you... ??? Um...

  Only those baptized into Christ are anointed. And those are only the 144,000.

  And, just you never mind what the Bible says. The Greek scriptures were primarily written only for the anointed, so what they say doesn't actually apply to the GC. So, stop asking such silly questions!

  In the decades after the first members of the congregation of anointed Christians were chosen, Jehovah saw fit to have a permanent record made of the earthly ministry of Jesus as well as His dealings with and counsel to first-century anointed Christians. Jehovah thus added the inspired Christian Greek Scriptures to the already existing inspired Hebrew Scriptures. The Hebrew Scriptures were written in the first place for the fleshly nation of Israel during the time that they had a special relationship with God. The Christian Greek Scriptures were written primarily for “the Israel of God,” those anointed as brothers of Christ and spiritual sons of God. Of course, that in no way suggests that non-Israelites could not derive great benefit from studying the Hebrew Scriptures. Similarly, Christians who are not anointed with holy spirit derive immeasurable benefits from studying and living according to the counsel found in the Christian Greek Scriptures. w08 1/15 p. 22 par. 11
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  54

  How do you overcome this JW excuse?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

  eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

  how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

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  leaving_quietly

  Or, "What you just said invalidates Jesus' words at John 4:24: 'God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth'."
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  54

  How do you overcome this JW excuse?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

  eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

  how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

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  leaving_quietly

  If Jehovah allows for a teaching or procedure to persist, it's because He wants it that way

  "So, you're saying that Jehovah WANTS to perpetuate lies? That sounds like a DIFFERENT god in mentioned in the Bible."
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  7

  WT study today - Eph 1:8-10 - the administration, Stage 2

  by Hoffnung in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in todays wt study (wt 15/jul/2012 p.27 paras 3-4), the society advances ephesians 1:10, which refers to an adminstration, that gathers the things in the heaven and on the earth.

  whereas the bible clearly identifies a double purpose of the adminstration, there is no reason to believe there are also 2 different time frames intended, however the wt explains it this way.

  we are actualliy in the adminstration stage 2, according to the wt.

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  leaving_quietly

  It's worth noting that the word "again" has been removed from the RNWT at both Eph 1:10 and Col 1:20. I'm looking for a way to refute the idea that the "things in the heavens" refers to the 144,000 and the "things on the earth" refer to the great crowd. Obviously, this isn't what Paul had in mind. After all, Christ said all authority had been given him in heaven and on earth. And in Col 1:20, the word used is "reconcile", which means "to restore friendly relations between". This has nothing to do with two groups and their destination.
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  35

  Looks like ABC New York got the okay.

  by truthseekeriam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

  12/19/2014order filed.

  upon due consideration, the media request of applicant abc news to make a video recording of oral argument in the above-referenced appeal is granted.

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  leaving_quietly

  Erm... how can the applicant make a video recording without a recording device in the courtroom?
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  24

  Bible Teach book

  by factfinder in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the revised edition of the bible teach book is up on jw.org with a new cover..

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  leaving_quietly

  It can no longer be called "the golden nugget".

  Also, if you have the yellow book in your field service bag, everyone will know you are not keeping up with "present truths".
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  21

  The official requirement for salvation in the latest WT, nothing to do with Jesus......

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "those with the earthly hope who supported christs brothers in the preaching work will have been judged as sheep and will be granted the privilege of living in the earthly realm of the kingdom.

  " 3/2015 study wt learn from illustration of talents par 13.. so there you have it, to get salvation you need to only obey the gb and if you obey and worship the gb, then you will be judged as a sheep.

  truly those who listen and obey, will be blessed!.

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  leaving_quietly

  @Vidiot, I was just trying to be polite to the self-exalted ones.

  @AnnOMaly, thanks for those quotes. Matthew 25:33, 40, 46... talk about stringing texts together way out of context!!!
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  8

  Who the Great Crowd Are Baptized To

  by lambsbottom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  great crowd jws are not baptized like the annointed are.

  the great crowd's baptism does not wash them of their sins, making them sinless, until way after armageddon (1,000 year rule).

  but the annointed are washed of their sins being 'sinless', as the recent wt study stated.

  1. 
  2. 
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  leaving_quietly

  The Great Crowd only know the baptism of John, not the baptism of Christ.

  From the Insight book:

  Further understanding of the meaning of John’s baptism is gained by comparing various translations of Luke 3:3. John came “preaching baptism in symbol of repentance for forgiveness of sins” (NW); “baptism conditioned on repentance” (CB); “baptism whereby men repented, to have their sins forgiven” (Kx); “baptism in token of repentance for the forgiveness of sins” (NE); “Turn away from your sins and be baptized, and God will forgive your sins” (TEV). These renderings make plain that the baptism did not wash away their sins, but the repentance and changing of their ways did, and of this, baptism was a symbol.

  The baptism performed by John was therefore not a special cleansing from God through his servant John, but a public demonstration and symbol of the individual’s repentance over his sins against the Law, which was to lead them to Christ. (Ga 3:24) John thereby prepared a people to “see the saving means of God.” (Lu 3:6) His work served to “get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.” (Lu 1:16, 17) Such a work had been prophesied by Isaiah and Malachi.—Isa 40:3-5; Mal 4:5, 6.

  And this, regarding being baptized into Christ:

  The faithful apostles of Jesus Christ were baptized in water by John’s baptism. (Joh 1:35-37; 4:1) But they had not yet been baptized with holy spirit when Jesus pointed out that they were also to be baptized in a symbolic baptism like his, a baptism into death. (Mr 10:39) So baptism into his death is something apart from water baptism. Paul expressed himself in his letter to the Christian congregation at Rome, saying: “Do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?”—Ro 6:3.

  It is Jehovah God who is responsible for the performing of such baptism into Christ Jesus as well as baptism into his death. He anointed Jesus, making him the Christ or Anointed One. (Ac 10:38) Thus God baptized Jesus with the holy spirit in order that, through Jesus, his followers might thereafter be baptized with holy spirit. Therefore, those who become joint heirs with him, with heavenly hopes, have to be “baptized into Christ Jesus,” that is, into the Anointed Jesus who, at the time of his anointing, was also begotten to be a spiritual son of God. They thereby become united to him, their Head, and they become members of the congregation that is the body of Christ.—1Co 12:12, 13, 27; Col 1:18.

  The course of these Christian followers who are baptized into Christ Jesus is a course of integrity-keeping under test from the time they are baptized into Christ, a daily facing of death and finally a death of integrity, as described by the apostle Paul when he explained to the Roman Christians: “Therefore we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that, just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also should likewise walk in a newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection.”—Ro 6:4, 5; 1Co 15:31-49.

  Clarifying the matter still further, Paul, in writing to the congregation at Philippi, described his own course as “a sharing in [Christ’s] sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his, to see if I may by any means attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.” (Php 3:10, 11) Only the Almighty God the heavenly Father, who is the Baptizer of those who are baptized in union with Jesus Christ and into his death, can complete the baptism. This He does through Christ by raising them up out of death to be united with Jesus Christ in the likeness of his resurrection, which is to heavenly, immortal life.—1Co 15:53, 54.
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  21

  The official requirement for salvation in the latest WT, nothing to do with Jesus......

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "those with the earthly hope who supported christs brothers in the preaching work will have been judged as sheep and will be granted the privilege of living in the earthly realm of the kingdom.

  " 3/2015 study wt learn from illustration of talents par 13.. so there you have it, to get salvation you need to only obey the gb and if you obey and worship the gb, then you will be judged as a sheep.

  truly those who listen and obey, will be blessed!.

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  2. 
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  leaving_quietly

  No offense intended to the GB, but it's a whole lot simpler than that...

  And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water to drink because he is a disciple, I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward. - Matt 10:42