When "all" is not "everyone" or "everything."

by Wonderment in

we keep seeing posters bringing col. 1.16 and john 1.3 up as proof that christ is excluded from the creative acts.

the proof they submit is that the words "all things [gk., pánta]" appear in these texts.

however, they are missing this important element from the discussion: the word "all" is rarely used in greek, and even in our everyday language to mean literally "everyone" or "everything" under the sky.

JoenB75

Wonderment,

Paul says the Father is excluded in 1 Corinthians 15:27 because of the statement in 15:28. Once all things are reconciled/put under the reign of the Son, the meditorial mode called the Son will subject to God that God may be all in all. Also God made the Son heir of all things and gave him All authority. He must be worshipped as Jesus Christ the highest authority in the universe. He is not making an argument that All things have excptions or that the Son is a creature. The Son is the Word made flesh, a specific mode of God revealed to reconcile / finish creation.

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If you speak against the Governing Body you will be punished.

by punkofnice in

this was a comment from the meeting(tm) on sunday.. the person that told me about it, is very confused about the validity of the corporation.

somewhere between a pimo and a pimi-lite.

the thing that angered me was that this person has cancer.

JoenB75

Who are they slaves of anyway. They placed themselves om high and got slaves under them

7

Interesting WT Deluge Contradiction I just noticed.

by Jofi_Wofo in

i was reviewing some of the evidence the wt proposes for their claim of the bible's scientific accuracy, when i came across this interesting assertion.. the mountains rise and fall, and today’s mountains were once under the ocean.

(psalm 104:6, 8) in contrast, several myths say that the mountains were created in their current form by the gods.. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/science-and-the-bible/.

interesting.

JoenB75

The nature of the biblical heavens and earth are revealed in forinstance Psalm 96:11 and Revelation 20:11. Rashi's Genesis 1 commentary speaks of the moon being shy, forinstance. I'm sorry somebody implied something else to you. If you dive into these texts, they obviously make many theological points. Jesuit astronomer George Coyne expressed well that the Hebrews were a people with no interest in natural science

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I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

JoenB75

The Son can do nothing by himself is not more important than the incredible "whatever the Father does the Son also does." It is found in John 5:19 as well. His revelation bears witness of the Father. But tell how could a creature do the same as the Father? How could all authority be given unto him, how could he be the heir of all things. Jehovah is old light so to speak. I think the new divine revelation is Jesus

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I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

JoenB75

I don't think it is possible to make the Christology of John too high.

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 14:9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

The Father is God, the Son is God. Different modes, but still God.

44

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

JoenB75

1 Corinthians 1:2

To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

Sorry folks. The Jews may call on Jehovah with their NWT translation. I will call on Jesus

44

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

JoenB75

Cofty,

Sure, to an extent. I do not play a first century Jew. I do not believe there is an issue in that the Jesus of the gospels was only send to Israel but would later draw all men to himself . The old covenant nation no longer exists. Jesus came to warn them of their impending doom. Jesus is heir to all things, the angels worship him and his chief apostle is Paul

18

Outcast Doctrines

by Socrateswannabe in

in a recent post about the watchtower’s claim that all animals were created as vegetarians, one commenter said that watchtower could no longer sustain this belief so they simply stopped talking about it.

i began thinking about other wacky doctrines and statements by the borg that have faded away.

i’ll offer two of them below, but the complete list must be longer than your arm.. 7000 year-long creative days: watchtower once taught that each of the creative days was 7,000 years in duration, hence the hype leading up to 1975. they believed that year marked 6,000 years since adam’s creation, and oh how nicely the 1,000-year reign would fit as the last piece of the puzzle, thus completing the final “day”.

JoenB75

I think it comes to the early chapters, it is mocks God and the rest of us to take this stuff literally. There is so much obvious symbolism, talking snakes included, that we should be able to understand this is not more literal than Pharaoh being a dragon in the Nile (Ezekiel 29). I think conservative Christendoms opposition to evolution has a lot to do with who has authority over the church souls. And this generation, means.. this generation. But coming under the watchtower inlfuence puts a veil on our eyes.

44

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

JoenB75

Cofty,

Jesus is appointed heir of all things and creation is commanded to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. So I would say the revelation of Jesus replaces the revelation of Jehovah / Yahweh. I suggest we do like the angels and worship this new mode / revelation of God (Hebrews 1:6).

44

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

JoenB75

The import of the name Jehovah into the NWT was obviously designed to further lower Jesus. The name of Jesus is above all (Philippians 2:9), Jesus is appointed heir of all things (Hebrews 1:2). Jehovah / Yahweh is a historical name we should only concern ourselves with if and when we study the old testament. There is a new one.

JoenB75

Posts by JoenB75

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”