aren't you sick of being filled with so much hate ?
i think hate is one of the greatest sins.
satan hates jehovah, and his people.
I wonder if Explorer did a hit & run on us. He posts one message, possibly without even reading other posts, stating his preconceived ideas (or at least what the society has told him to think), and then doesn't come back to read the responses, or respond to any of them himself.
Maybe he's just happy being under the control of the Borg!
Prove me wrong Explorer. Tell us that you've read through the responses that people took time to write back to you.
Back to the top!
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
hi everyone, this is a simple (well, fairly) survey.. which sex has the toughest time, men or women?.
women.
carry on.......
Hi Waiting,
Unfortunately, like you, I also grew up with an alcoholic, abusive father that beat me and my sister up simply out of anger. I remember when my little brother was 2 years old, sitting at the table on a high chair, trying to drink a glass of milk and spilling it...and my father slapping him so hard that he fell backwards off his high chair. My mom got beaten up many times, sometimes in front of us, and that has scarred me for life. Even today, I cannot watch any movies where there's violence, especially against women. If I hear a woman screaming on the TV, I have to turn off the TV (usually to the consternation of my friends that may be watching), or I have to run out of the room. How does that grab you for a mid-30s guy?
I also know of many other examples of female abuse, especially when I was volunteering at a women's shelter where my mom was on the board.
However, after my experience with my ex (and with the other couple I mentioned), I realized that it's a two way street.
After posting my initial post, I did look for those articles, so that I could post the URLs...but all I could find were the two articles from Detroit (one posted, the other a URL). Perhaps you might have more luck with your search engine locating them...if they were ever put on-line.
You asked me:
The "same cases" as the 40% which are males? Or "same cases" where the woman is beaten?
Are you suggesting that when men are beaten 40% of the time, 60% of the time in the same cases, the emotional woman is the instigator?
Yes, that's what the article pointed out. The women started the fights in 60% of the cases, with the result that most of them also abused their male mate. I also found it hard to believe when I read it, because in my experience in the women's shelters, I was made to believe that it's always the man that always starts the fight and beats up the woman. Mind you, in the shelter, you are only made aware of just one side of the story.
You also said:
Would it then follow that if women are "emotional" when institagating violent - that men are also? How inconvenient for women to be singled out for the only sex to have emotions.
No, don't put words in my mouth, please. All that was stated is that overall women are more emotional than men. It's part of their make-up. And it wasn't said in a negative way. And again, no, the women weren't singled out as the only sex to have emotions. If 40% of the men in the statistics are the ones receiving the abuse, I'm sure it's because their emotions aren't allowing them to hit a female...something that also prevented me from hitting my wife, with the result that she took advantage of me.
You also said:
Btw - in your statistics, where does drinking and generational violence come into play? Or is it just the "emotions of the woman?" It's the only thing you brought out as causing violence in women.
Interesting about the drinking. I remember reading somewhere in some other statistics (and I'm sure you're going to ask me to produce them, which I can't at the moment..they are just a memory) that in overall percentages, women and men were tied when it came to drinking. Just as many women hit the bottle as men do. And I'm sure that would also contribute to the woman being the agressor, "emotions" aside.
By the way...even though you're trying to tell me that you're not trying to appear antagonistic, from where I'm sitting, that's how it appears, since you're questioning me as if I wrote those things, when in fact, just like I stated several times....all I did was talk about some statistics that were recorded, and then said that violence is a two way street. (Because usually it's the women's rights groups that try to make it look all one-sided, violence against women, period).
You said that "both sides sling statistics". Well, most people reading this will have to agree that they had probably never heard about violence against men by their partners, or about male shelters, before my post. Usually, only the women sling statistics against men, and all I tried to do, "like lawyers do", is present another side to the story.
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
i am brand new here.
just thought i would add my "two cents worth" as they say.
i basically have become very hurt and feel so let down.
Welcome to the boards Vitameatavegamin!
Unfortunately, the "loving brothers and sisters" in the congregation tend to leave people just when they need help the most. The moment you are down and out, they kick you on top of that, instead of following Christ's example of helping others, especially those that can use the help.
Your story moved me. Like you, I'm wondering...how can others in the congregation act like that? Very unloving, to say the least.
You will find support here among us posters!
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
hi everyone, this is a simple (well, fairly) survey.. which sex has the toughest time, men or women?.
women.
carry on.......
Here's an article I found from a Detroit newspaper from 97:
-------------------
Sunday, April 20, 1997
The Detroit News
No place to run for male victims of domestic abuse: Shelters, support groups rare for men
By Becky Beaupre / The Detroit News
The attacker's temper flared and keys flew, pitched forward in a fit of rage.
They slammed against Richard Daniska's chest, smack against a stapled incision left by his heart surgeon two weeks earlier.
His attacker tried to keep him from leaving, but Daniska -- who had been recuperating from open heart surgery on the couch -- made it to a nearby medical center for X-rays.
Then, just as he had in the past, he called the St. Clair Shores police and filed an assault report.
Against his wife.
"It got to the point where -- and this might sound silly -- I went to bed at night with a little children's baseball bat on the nightstand," Daniska said in soft, even tones. "I was really afraid to go to sleep."
In 1995, there were about 7,000 reports of Michigan men like Daniska who were physically abused by their wives, girlfriends or unmarried partners. But there are virtually no programs, shelters or support groups aimed at helping them.
Some women's groups say that's because battered men make up only 5 percent to 10 percent of domestic violence victims. But an analysis of crime data collected by the Michigan State Police shows that men were victims in nearly 20 percent of all domestic abuse cases reported in 1995 in Michigan.
<Keeping in mind that men might be less inclined to report abuse against them, the figures can be signigicantly higher, perhaps double of what is actually reported.> Domestic abuse includes homicides, sexual offenses, assaults and robberies between spouses, ex-spouses and unmarried partners.
Some contend there's a reason women's groups downplay the issue of battered men: the fear that a widespread movement to help battered men will dilute funding earmarked for battered women.
The state police numbers are not perfect. They are only as accurate as the officers taking the reports and in some cases include estimates necessary to remove child victims from the sample.
But they suggest that domestic violence against men is more prevalent than is sometimes reported.
"There is a general unwillingness to accept that this is a problem," said Mel Feit, executive director of the National Center for Men in New York, which receives about 150 calls a year from men who say they are abused. "Usually, a man who is a victim will try to report it only once. He calls the shelter and they say, 'What did you do to provoke her?' They reach out for help and are abused again by the system."
The Detroit News
Few safe havens
When Daniska finally decided to leave home, nearly every shelter he called turned him away. He spent one night at the Salvation Army, but they wouldn't let him stay longer.
"There was absolutely nothing out there for me," said Daniska, 46, a longtime Macomb County resident. "The shelters said they only serve women."
Finally, Daniska took a job caring for an elderly man in exchange for room and board. He also divorced his wife of 18 years.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Another interesting article is at: http://www.vix.com/pub/menmag/detbatm3.htm
Abuse is a two way street! Let's all work together to stop it!
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
i knew someone when i was little named debra garcia.
she divorced and married someone else, but i do not know her new name.
the last time i saw her was in west helena, arkansas a few years ago, and she tried to speak to me, but i had been trained not to talk to this "evil apostate".
Hey KS,
I too have been looking for some ex-JWs since leaving the borg. I've been able to locate a couple of them using the following list that I'll give you the URL for.
Download whichever version of the list you think will work best on your computer.
http://www.watchtowernews.org/findexjws.htm
I hope you find her,
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
she is studying with one of jws.
she has a study with her teacher, and then she comes here and talks about it.
she learns that the wts teaches one thing to new ones, but something else entirely to those who are already baptized.
LOL
Bbbbbboyneko...you had me laughing on the floor! LOL
You're right on the money on that one!!!
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
in reading posts here for the past couple days, i obviously am only slightly familiar with bill bowen and his crusade.. is bb still regularly attending meetings, and being treated like a proverbial "leper"?.
if so, i say that about 100 of us drive to his congregation for a sunday meeting, attend respectfully, but talk to and treat bb inside the kh like the "hero" that he deserves!
What a hoot that would be!!! LOL
Seriously, that would get the society's attention, I'm sure. And if "apostates" kept going to that hall on a weekly basis, the society would probably be forced to change their "everyone is welcome" policy! Wow!
Things that make you go hmmmmmm......
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
hi everyone, this is a simple (well, fairly) survey.. which sex has the toughest time, men or women?.
women.
carry on.......
As ex-JWs, we're all in this together. Why antagonize by having a male vs. female "who has it tougher" contest? Both sides can come out with good stories, I'm sure.
I had a very hard time at the hands of my ex-wife, but I'm not about to put all women in the same boat as her. It wouldn't be fair to do that.
What isn't different is that the strong (and strong minded) try to take advantage of the weak (and weak minded) due to our imperfections, etc.
Just like big government wants to rule over its citizens, big corporations over the masses, big religion over the lowly, etc....relationship dynamics can also be similar.
Because of the male being overal physically stronger than the female, when abuse happens, it's usually the female that gets the bruise marks, and the attention. But, that doesn't answer who instigated the fight. And what about all the males that get beat up, and are afraid to hit back, even in self defense?
When the Toronto Star published an article about domestic abuse (sometime around 98 if I remember right), they stated something that's not in vogue with women's rights groups, and of course they were up in arms about that.
The statistics showed that 40% of domestic abuse is directed at the males...but males don't want to admit to getting beat up by their mates. That's why there are very few male shelters around (yes, they do exist), and why there are so many womens shelters (my mom was on the board of a couple of womens shelters, and I also volunteered at one of them for a while).
How did the womens rights groups react to that? They released pamphlets entitled "The myth of the abused male." Unbelievable...they were so narrow minded that they didn't want to admit that abuse is a two way street.
Also, lost in the statistics, is that in 60% of those same cases, the women (by nature of being more "emotional"...not my words by the way) were the actual instigators in the disputes.
Mind you, these were statistics taken in Canada and the US.
Yes, women have it very very tough in many many countries. One doesn't need to look any farther than Afganistan, Iran, or even India (with bride burnings happening on a daily basis) to see the atrocities comitted against women...usually in the name of religion.
I can go on and on....but, I'll stop here. I'm sure I'll hear from a few people about what I posted, so keep it clean! :-)
Luv & peace,
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
has anyone ever addressed the incidence of domestic violence in witness families?
i am relatively new here and don't want to cover old ground.. thinking back, i can name multiple examples of households in each congregation i attended where domestic violence was evident.. i have an active protective order against my ex.
who is still active in the congregation he attends.
When I was married (to a fanatic pioneer), I was the one that should have gotten a restraining order against my wife.
Even though I was averaging 15 hours of service every month, if I came home from my full time work (to support her pioneering) and didn't go out in service with her, she would start swearing, breaking things, and on occasions, hit me with something, leaving me with bruses.
When I would grab her arms so that she couldn't hit me, she would try kicking me, or head-butting me.
Incredible.
Then, she would start telling me that she would go to the elders and tell them that I'm beating her up, because the elders always listen to crying females.
It's a good thing I had a tape recorder taping all this once. I ended up going to the elders about this, and they deleted her as a pioneer. But, this whole experience left me definately shaken & stirred.
I also realized that I didn't want to be married for the rest of my life to someone like that, and since she was a fanatically "faithfull JW"........
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
PS. In the congregation I was attending at that time, I knew of one other couple where the female was the aggressor, even in public. He was usually trying to keep the peace, and ended up getting the raw end of the deal.
one subject i've never seen addressed on these boards.
concerns violence - or rather the lack of it - in.
response to injustices within the organization.. this is a touchy area, i realize.
Wow...what you posted got me thinking.
If everyone that was going to be DFd acted up, how much could the elders stomach before asking NOT to be on any more judicial comittees?
Hmmmmm.......
Peter Stride
Toronto, Canada
