Posts by peacefulpete

11

My parents did not really shun me when I left but I am now breaking their hearts…

by sinboi in

if they have shunned me and chase me out of the house when i leave the cult, i would not give a damn.

i can still feel their love and concern for me even now.. though i have moved out voluntarily when i joined the army, i am afraid that the life i am living now will break their hearts.

i am now a bartender in a bar and am cohabiting with a woman.

peacefulpete

Make your own peace with your past. Forgive me, but you seem to need to.

21

6 and he said, it is too small a thing that thou shouldest be servant to me to raise up the sons of jacob, and to bring back the netzurei yisroel (preserved of israel,); i will also give thee for ohr goyim, that thou mayest be my yeshuah unto the ketzeh ha’aretz.. 2nd isaiah, actually an anonymous prophet at the time of cyrus, did his best to inspire and hearten his fellow countrymen.

many judahites had lost hope and even lost faith.

the explanations offered by previous prophets, namely that their own sins had resulted in their situation, were not adequate nor convincing.

peacefulpete

PioneerSchmioneer....There is a lot of good stuff in that review. Your comment

But the Jews did not believe in a "suffering" messiah. Where did that come about?

is passionately insisted amongst Jewish commentators.

However, I find that a splitting of hairs and a debate about semantics.

As you probably know a number of texts from Qumran describe what most readers would describe as messiah figures that do endure derision and suffering, even death. In fact they make allusions to the very Isaiah suffering servant passages. Various Talmudic references similarly describe the experiences of Rabbis using the words of the suffering servant in parallel. IOW, we have extant a number of diverse usages of the suffering servant description used in parallel with real or idealized figures of religious importance. IMO, the distinction drawn between these examples and the later Christian usage to be one of semantics, parallel vs. typology.

43

Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

by Sea Breeze in

dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

information packed.

interesting take on paganism as well.

peacefulpete

But none of this changes the overwhelming evidence that Jesus was crucified on a cross and not a pole. JW's just love being contrarians to bolster their pseudo-intellectualism.

As I made clear, the NT seems to support that at least some writers did envision a cross shape. I'm not certain that we can say all early Christians felt that way nor can we say whether the concept was born from history or an early tradition. But on that matter, we will likely never agree. You can say I'm being a contrarian.

AS to Martyr's comments about Jesus being 50, what concerns me most is not an error but the appeal to the authority of 'Apostles" to make his point. Either he was making that up that story in an effort to silence his opponents or this view really was held by many others who apparently had inherited that understanding.

21

2nd Isaiah 49:6

by peacefulpete in

6 and he said, it is too small a thing that thou shouldest be servant to me to raise up the sons of jacob, and to bring back the netzurei yisroel (preserved of israel,); i will also give thee for ohr goyim, that thou mayest be my yeshuah unto the ketzeh ha’aretz.. 2nd isaiah, actually an anonymous prophet at the time of cyrus, did his best to inspire and hearten his fellow countrymen.

many judahites had lost hope and even lost faith.

the explanations offered by previous prophets, namely that their own sins had resulted in their situation, were not adequate nor convincing.

peacefulpete

6 And He said, It is too small a thing that Thou shouldest be Servant to Me to raise up the sons of Jacob, and to bring back the Netzurei Yisroel (Preserved of Israel,); I will also give Thee for Ohr Goyim, that Thou mayest be My Yeshuah unto the ketzeh ha’aretz.

2nd Isaiah, actually an anonymous prophet at the time of Cyrus, did his best to inspire and hearten his fellow countrymen. Many Judahites had lost hope and even lost faith. The explanations offered by previous prophets, namely that their own sins had resulted in their situation, were not adequate nor convincing. Now a voice arose that had an alternative explanation. Their suffering was for the sake of the Gentiles. God had a larger plan in mind. He used Israel as his servant to bring his glory and salvation to the nations, i.e. Babylon and Egypt and nations all around.

It was a novel idea, and not many found it persuasive, but some apparently did.

Fast forward a few centuries and again (or still) facing foreign domination many of these passages and many others were reinterpreted as Messianic.

It just struck me earlier today how this particular passage may have contributed to 2 elements. The self identification of the Qumran community as the Nozrei ha-Brit (preservers/guardians/watchers of the covenant) might be the first.

Variations of this word and derivatives are many, e.g. Nozrei, Notzri, Netzurei, Nazar, Nazarite, Nazorean or Nazarene. All have a root meaning of watch over, guard and preserve.

The Qumran community and subsequent Christian Jews took this name. Might this passage explain why? I have not exhaustively researched this so any comments welcome.

Secondly the name Jesus/Joshua was not accidental. A number of Jewish movements had the clear expectation that the greatest warrior of their mythic past would return to liberate them again. This is explicitly referred to in a number of writings from the last centuries BCE. In addition, the Zechariah 6 text had contributed to this connection between the "branch" and the name Jesus/Joshuah/Yeshuah.

I wonder if this Isaiah verse might have as well.

Note that Yahweh's 'Yeshuah' (salvation) is in the very section discussing Israel's fate to be the suffering servant, that Christians reinterpreted to be typologically in reference to Jesus (salvation).

43

Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

by Sea Breeze in

dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

information packed.

interesting take on paganism as well.

peacefulpete

It's also worth mentioning that the cross shape was perceived as fulfillment of OT passages (Ps 22:20-2; Deut 33:17) that described the horns of an auroch (Martyr and Tertullian). As such it's not impossible the idea was drawn from scripture not the other way around.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I think it's obvious that in some texts, as they exist today, the writers were envisioning a cross shape from the incidental description.

43

Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

by Sea Breeze in

dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

information packed.

interesting take on paganism as well.

peacefulpete

Just to appraise the value of Irenaeus testimony, a few paragraphs earlier he is insistent that Jesus was 50 years old. Arguing passionately that the Apostles taught this. Reality is, the traditions were all in flux yet.

On completing His thirtieth year He suffered, being in fact still a young man, and who had by no means attained to advanced age. Now, that the first 392stage of early life embraces thirty years,3140 and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify; those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord, [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information.3141 And he remained among them up to the times of Trajan.3142 Some of them, moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. Whom then should we rather believe? Whether such men as these, or Ptolemæus, who never saw the apostles, and who never even in his dreams attained to the slightest trace of an apostle?

43

Fading is better then completely leaving...comments?

by Witness 007 in

i got the internet in my house and realised it's all lies....but as a pioneer/ministerial servant i chose to fade.

see i had family and friends who were fully strict witnesses.

so i played the poor lost soul brother who is not sure what's happening.

peacefulpete

This seems to be a popular topic. Our experience never allowed for a choice. We walked away, even moved...They pursued us and collected odd testimonials from people all over the country. Maybe we should have been flattered that we merited such attention. lol. I'm sure who we were made a great deal of difference.

Sure, if you can walk away, do it. I personally never felt the need to tell anyone off or write a manifesto detailing my views to people who didn't want to hear.

In the end we didn't have to lie to people, nor did we say stuff we would later regret. Control what you can but be true to yourself. Don't become someone you dislike to be liked by others.

27

Disfellowshiping only began in 1952!! Before this Witnesses were immoral!

by Witness 007 in

many witnesses lived together in sin or had many wives before 1952 during the rutherford era, this was frowned apoun but no one was disfellowshiped unless they did something major like critisize rutherford!

then in watch.

may 15 1944 and finally watch 1/3 1952, disfellowshiping was invented.

peacefulpete

Many years ago a special pioneer came to our congo. He described his life to me. He had had children but had no contact with them or their mother for decades since he was devoted to preaching. I was shocked but even more shocked no one seemed to care.

43

Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

by Sea Breeze in

dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

information packed.

interesting take on paganism as well.

peacefulpete

Going back to the cross or stake with the JWs, I think they are "trapped" in their methods of dealing with the NT-text.

Couldn't agree more. The same is true of every sect, past and present.

43

Did Jesus Die On a Stake or a Cross?

by Sea Breeze in

dominic enyart exposes watchtower deception regarding their demonization of the cross.

information packed.

interesting take on paganism as well.

peacefulpete

Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting Plato was responsible for the Gospels.

As a personal project, I'm collecting relevant information regarding the religious and ethical climate of the early days of Christianity. Every Christian is aware of how today's forms of Christianity are in part an adaptation to the age we live in. Some embrace change others get dragged along, but change comes either way. The Reformation was in a large way the product of political struggles, increasing literacy and scientific progress. The faith grew differently in different soil. Similarly, the Second Great Awakening of the 19th century (WT included) was triggered and fostered under a new spirit of individualism and socio-economic change.

In the same way, the so-called intertestamental period events and cultural pressures spawned new ideas about God and salvation. Some of these ideas are very surprising. The more we learn the less surprising the birth of Christianity becomes. No religion is an island.