https://www.amazon.com/Shades-Sheol-Death-Afterlife-Testament/dp/083082687
Great book. Discusses obscure passages like 2 chronic 16:14
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze inwe all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.
my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.
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What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze inwe all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.
my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.
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peacefulpete
Often John 3:13 "no one has ascended to heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man." has been understood as insisting that Jesus was telling Nicodemus that no one had gone to heaven prior to Jesus. Yet oddly Jesus appears to be saying that he alone has ascended to heaven. Commentators are struck by the surprising use of the perfect tense.
"The perfect tense "has ascended" is unexpected." Morris, The Gospel According to John, 223
:"The use of the perfect tense is a difficulty, for it seems to imply that the Son of Man has already ascended into heaven." Raymond Brown, The Gospel According to John, 1:132.
"The difficulty of the verse lies in the tense of "has ascended." It seems to imply that the Son of Man had already at the moment of speaking ascended into heaven.? C.K. Barrett, The Gospel According to St. John (London: SPCK, 1972), 177.
So then what was the author of the words at John 3 trying to say? An answer may be found in comparing Jewish and Christian idiom. It appears that "No one has ascended to heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven" is a figure of speech indicating a special divine enlightenment. Jesus in the context of verse 13 is revealing his unique understanding of the secrets of life and salvation.
Significantly the phrase "who is in heaven," at the end of verse 13 which appears in many Greek as well as Latin and Syriac manuscripts, (A [ * ] Q Y 050 Ë 1,13 Ï latt sy c,p,h and late second early 3rd century Hippolytus, Against Hersies of Noetus 1, 1:7 )
This would suggest that Jesus, while living on earth, was at the same time also "in heaven".. IOW We are speaking in metaphors. Being in communication with God could be said to have 'ascended to heaven' to have heard these things. Nicodemus wants to understand "heavenly things" and it is only Jesus who "ascended to heaven" and "is in heaven" who can reveal them.
Following this then, the variants and omission of the closing words in some leading mss, "who is in heaven" possibly resulted from literalizing the expression and trying to make sense of it in the same way that modern readers usually do.
Perhaps this is similar to what is meant at Eph 2:6 when it says Christians are "seated in heavenly places", meaning having received enlightenment, a familiarity with heavenly things.
Similarly, Baruch 3:29 asks:
"Who has gone up to heaven and obtained her [Wisdom] and brought her down from the clouds?"
Adam Clarke commented on this passage: This seems to be a figurative expression for "no one has known the mysteries of the Kingdom," as in Deuteronomy 30:12 and Romans 10:6; and the expression is found in the generally received maxim that to be perfectly acquainted with the concerns of a place, it is necessary for a person to be on the spot.
A German expositor, Christian Schoettgen, in his Horae Hebraicae observed of John 3:13
: "It was an expression common among the Jews who often say of Moses that he ascended to heaven and there received a revelation on the institution of divine worship.? He quotes the rabbis as saying, "It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Oh that we had one like Moses the prophet of the Lord to ascend into heaven and bring it [the Law] down to us." (Jerusalem Targum on Deut. 30:12).
So John 3:13 cannot be used as evidence that the author/editors of John denied the commonly believed idea of ancient worthies ascending to heaven. This understanding dovetails well with Jesus' assertion that Abraham Isaac and Jacob were raised and alive to worship God in Mark 12:26,7.
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What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze inwe all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.
my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.
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peacefulpete
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John 3:13.
Does not mean what you think it means
There were also those that held the soul was immortal but unconscious or at least impotent until the resurrection. A fairly cohesive melding of Greek ideas with ancient Canannite. The author of Revelation seems to have held that view.
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CHICKEN LITTLE and the power of stupid PROPHECY
by Terry inprophecy or bad guessing spoken with authority?
_________________________________________________________________________ (53 years ago!
) september 2022 broadcastgoverning body member, stephen lett:“we’re living in the final part of the last days.
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peacefulpete
Amen
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What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze inwe all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.
my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.
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peacefulpete
Philo when commenting of the Jacob's Ladder story:
Somn. 1.138–139 For so far is air from being alone of all things untenanted, that like a city it has a goodly population, its citizens being imperishable and immortal souls equal in number to the stars. Of these souls some, those that are closest to the earth and lovers of the body (φιλοσώματοι), are descending to be fast bound in mortal bodies, while others are ascending, having again been separated (from the body) according to the numbers and periods determined by nature. Of these last some, longing for the familiar and accustomed ways of mortal life, hurry back again (παλινδρομοῦσιν αὖθις), while others, pronouncing that life great folly, call the body a prison and a tomb but escaping from it as though from a dungeon or a grave are lifted up on light wings to the ether and range the heights for ever. (De somniis 1.138–139)1
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CSA Victom Speaks Out
by LostintheFog1999 ini happened to come across this video at the beginning of the week.
you feel so sorry for this poor woman who experienced csa and then the hardheartedness of the elders (what's new there) when she needed genuine love and help.. https://fb.watch/j1qacgxphi/.
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peacefulpete
The flaw in legislation is the equating the Catholic "sacrament" of "confession" with "shepherding" conversations. The Bishop himself differentiates the two. He reported abuse that he became aware of it in "shepherding" context. He knows he is a mandatory reporter in that setting. The WT is falsely equating their shepherding discussions with a church sacrament. The sacrament tradition of the Catholic church is itself morally indefensible but that is a separate issue. It seems this was recognized by the one panelist, confession needs to be defined very narrowly. All communication with victims and families are not a "confession".
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What Percentage of active JW's are on Anti-Depressants?
by Sea Breeze ini came across an xjw post on redditt from a rn.
she states that nearly every jw she ever treated was on anti-depressants or anti-psychotic drugs:.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/f35vaa/just_about_every_jw_i_come_across_is_on/ i once read somewhere that 1 in 5 jw's were on anti-depressants, but i couldn't find any documentation.
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peacefulpete
I know everyone feels this way but just to be clear, we hope anyone who feels they need some help, gets it. There is no shame to using antidepressants or other medications. If you feel you may be tempted to harm yourself, please do not hesitate calling 988 in the US.
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CHICKEN LITTLE and the power of stupid PROPHECY
by Terry inprophecy or bad guessing spoken with authority?
_________________________________________________________________________ (53 years ago!
) september 2022 broadcastgoverning body member, stephen lett:“we’re living in the final part of the last days.
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peacefulpete
Regarding acid rain, it is a classic success story. Public awareness resulted in legislation that reduced SO2 by 93%. Our air is by far clearer today then in the 70's. It would have become a much greater issue had not these efforts been made. There is hope that the effects of Global Climate change can be minimized if we similarly act responsibly now. Whatever Happened to Acid Rain? | American Council on Science and Health (acsh.org)
Neither of these issues were "prophecy" delivered by someone with claims of inspiration. These were secular projections based upon available evidence. The reductions of acid rain were not a failure but a success.
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CHICKEN LITTLE and the power of stupid PROPHECY
by Terry inprophecy or bad guessing spoken with authority?
_________________________________________________________________________ (53 years ago!
) september 2022 broadcastgoverning body member, stephen lett:“we’re living in the final part of the last days.
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peacefulpete
"I tell you this generation will see all these things occur".
100-200 years later ......
"it did occur, it was the church" Hermas
"it did occur, we go to heaven now" Ignatius, Polycarp etc.
"it did occur, it was spiritual". St. Augustine
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What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?
by Sea Breeze inwe all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.
my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.
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peacefulpete
We haven't mentioned the widely held Jewish belief in reincarnation. The great Jewish thinker Philo of Alexandria (contemporary of Paul) discussed these concepts as if they are not in genuine tension. Immortal soul, death of the soul, resurrection, reincarnation were eloquently woven into a single philosophy. Mind you it makes little sense, but then we find in Paul a similar confusion.